Dyno disappointment!!

final5-0 · Jun 27, 2007

Good to see you are making progress

I'm with Mike ... 12.00 to 1.00 is too fat for your combo

13 initial timing ... what kinda chit is that
Dizzy twisting
Give me a break

Is he ... or Is he not ... doing a Custom Tune
He should be working with the spark tables

You wanna ask him about .........
1) How much total amount of spark advance
and
2) At what rpm he has got it all in at

The answer to 1&2 will tell you what he did in the Spark Tables

I mean ... Really ... Its just friggin unbelievable

I don't buy that deal about having to tear it down
that is if
The ONLY problem was the valves hanging open

I suspect ... The valves were adjusted too tight

Cranking values of 180 sound about right for that combo

As long as it is running right ........
I'd not worry about anything else
and
Use all of those 289 rwhp to get away from there as fast as you can :Word:

Grady

'94ChickStang · Jun 27, 2007

final5-0 said:
Good to see you are making progress

I'm with Mike ... 12.00 to 1.00 is too fat for your combo

13 initial timing ... what kinda chit is that
Dizzy twisting
Give me a break

Is he ... or Is he not ... doing a Custom Tune
He should be working with the spark tables

You wanna ask him about .........
1) How much total amount of spark advance
and
2) At what rpm he has got it all in at

The answer to 1&2 will tell you what he did in the Spark Tables

I mean ... Really ... Its just friggin unbelievable

I don't buy that deal about having to tear it down
that is if
The ONLY problem was the valves hanging open

I suspect ... The valves were adjusted too tight

Cranking values of 180 sound about right for that combo

As long as it is running right ........
I'd not worry about anything else
and
Use all of those 289 rwhp to get away from there as fast as you can :Word:

Grady

Well said, I'm gonna demand he throws it on the Dyno once more and tweaks the AF and timing to squeeze a little more...then I'm gonna see how fast it'll get me far away from that shop!!

final5-0 · Jun 27, 2007

While you are demanding

Demand he give you not only the typical chart results
but
He also gives you the results in numerical form

You see this in the mag articles all the time when you see the
hp values in one column and tq values in another

I'll be happy to load them up and compare your combo to other
AFR FTI combos if you wish

289 is right in there in the ball park IMHO
and
Even all the more so if you're really as fat as 12 to 1

Grady

final5-0 · Jun 27, 2007

I forgot something important

If he will do another pull or two

1) Tell him you wanna shoot for an af ratio of 12.75 to 1.00
and
2) Total advanced spark value of 36 degrees and all be in by 2500

Now ... #2 is pretty aggressive so you gotta use 93 grade gas

If you wanna be a bit more conservative ............

Go back about 4 degrees and don't have it all in so quick
but
That is gonna produce more of a plain jane, milk toast response

Good Luck and keep up posted

Grady

'94ChickStang · Jun 27, 2007

final5-0 said:
I forgot something important

If he will do another pull or two

1) Tell him you wanna shoot for an af ratio of 12.75 to 1.00
and
2) Total advanced spark value of 36 degrees and all be in by 2500

Now ... #2 is pretty aggressive so you gotta use 93 grade gas

If you wanna be a bit more conservative ............

Go back about 4 degrees and don't have it all in so quick
but
That is gonna produce more of a plain jane, milk toast response

Good Luck and keep up posted

Grady

If I'm remembering correctly, he said it had a total advanced spark value of 32* or 33*, and I'd like to continue using 91 octane so I'm guessing thats right?!

But I dont see him telling me no to a couple more pulls after all of this crap, I definately want it leaned down a bit. I'll tell him 12.75...

WhiteDevil · Jun 27, 2007

I know what kind of crap is that. Some "custom tune" twisting the dizzy. What lame shop. They should do all the timing through the chip! That dizzy should be at 10 degrees.

final5-0 · Jun 27, 2007

I would like to say this about that

Hmmm ... Did not someone famous used to say that

It might should be said ......

From the dyno tech's perspective

I'd be willing to bet most of their customers can't relate to spark/fuel
tables so he has to talk about spark in a way they they can relate
to and that would be with dizzy settings

I do wanna keep an open mind here and now that I think about it
I probably was being a bit too critical

but still

It always amazes me how many peeps go to the dyno
and pay for a service
but
the tech offers no or very little explanation of what all was done

If I was tuning for pay ...
I'd provide a hard copy summary of
1) baseline results
2) adjustments made
3 ) brief explanation on why they were made

To my way of thinking ... that would look very Professional

anyway ......

Yes if you wanna go more conservative that would be about right
but
The difference is gonna be felt in your old back side
and
It is gonna produce slightly lower dyno values IMHO

Just wondering ... do you have an afpr and if so .......
What did they do with it

Grady

Pokageek · Jun 27, 2007

I went 15* on my car. So you COULD get more out of it..probably another 5-10rwhp but yes you would be on 93 octane.

rj95svt · Jun 28, 2007

I was wondering about the initial timing myself. I think that it really doesnt matter all that much but I would want the tune with the initial timing set at 10 degrees that way you alway set the timing back to what the factory set it if you ever have to do any motor work. Instead of going what did that dyno guy say he set the timing at again? In the end you get the same results though as long as he did tweak the timing values in the computer. I believe you'll be very close to 300 with that A/F ratio a little more aggresive.

final5-0 · Jun 28, 2007

The dizzy setting could make a H U G E difference

Here is where it could really hose up things in a big way

There are two concerns here .......
1) WOT Power
2) Low & Mid Level Load driving conditions

Say you got your dizzy jacked up to 15

You would have to add 5 to E V E R Y value in the spark table :Word:

He tunes the highest spark table load row for best WOT Power

You then could have #2 too high and take a quick trip to ping city
later on if some of the following occurs

Ambient temps rise
You get a bad tank of gas
You try and run a lesser grade of gas
etc ... etc ... etc

I would want my dizzy at 10
if
I was gonna get a Pro Tune

Of course ... he could always confirm the dizzy setting and adjust
the entire table accordingly

Grady

'94ChickStang · Jul 3, 2007

Sorry all I left for MA for the weekend BUT

I got to the shop last Thursday and he had not had a chance to put it on the Dyno again....I took it for a ride and it was running perfect in my opinion so I decided to leave well enough alone @ this point!! Great news

They knocked the bill down $600 for my inconvenience so my patience seemed to pay off. I've been driving it and it's great, the somewhat noisy rocker arms when it's warmed up would be all I have to say in the negative department...but it's not really that bad.

I'll post the graph tonight but the 289/318 was run @ 3:30 in the afternoon while it was 94* outside with 25% humidity or so. He was mistaken and had only pushed it to 5500 RPM (again) and the A/F is still 12:1.....SO I'm hoping sometime soon to get to another dyno session and see what I can get out of it after leaning it out and adding more timing perhaps (and DEFINATELY with cooler temps!!) It may be later in the year before that happens...it's fun to drive right now

Grady, no I didn't bother with an AFPR as I was hoping that I never needed to worry about it!!

rj95svt · Jul 3, 2007

It's good o hear that the car is running good now! There is deffinatly some power left on the table with the rich A/F ratio but I don't think that will cause you any problems and will help keep you from having problems with detonation. Just enjoy the car for now as it's been a long time coming. The shop done you right in my book by knocking 600 dollars off the price. I know it was frustrating but atleast he did get it fixed and get the tune close to right.

gcomfx.com · Jul 3, 2007

Yeah! I thought you were going to get hosed. Good to have the car back?

final5-0 · Jul 3, 2007

Yes ... It seems like they made an effort to make things right for you
so that is just great. As said above ... glad they did not treat you bad.

Again ... those values with 12 to 1 is really not that bad at all :Word:

Your noisy lifters may not be a prob at all. Most roller rockers make
more noise than the oem steel stamped rockers.

Have some fun with the Stang for now

You can always find those last few ponies later if you wish

Look forward to seeing the data on the pull

Grady

'94ChickStang · May 6, 2008

final5-0 said:
Yes ... It seems like they made an effort to make things right for you
so that is just great. As said above ... glad they did not treat you bad.

Again ... those values with 12 to 1 is really not that bad at all :Word:

Your noisy lifters may not be a prob at all. Most roller rockers make
more noise than the oem steel stamped rockers.

Have some fun with the Stang for now

You can always find those last few ponies later if you wish

Look forward to seeing the data on the pull

Grady

Hi Grady,

Ahhhhhh, after months and months of the car running just ok (and that aweful shop going out of business!) I'm finally got my valve covers off a couple weeks back and adjusted the lifters & rockers so all should be good there.

I'm going to the MUSTANG Dyno this week to get it retuned and lean it out a bit...I know the numbers will be lower than my previous Dynojet #'s (if anyone knows HOW much lower with mods in my sig). I heard from the tuner and search here that the Mustang Dyno will tune the best as they can tune at all speeds ect. I'm not really worried about the bragging rather a good tune from a good shop, which I found.

I will post the results this time if all goes to plan, promise! I was just too pissed to post my last graph after the nightmare that was last spring/summer.

thx
Ryon & Naomi

final5-0 · May 6, 2008

'94ChickStang said:
Hi Grady,

Ahhhhhh, after months and months of the car running just ok (and that aweful shop going out of business!) I'm finally got my valve covers off a couple weeks back and adjusted the lifters & rockers so all should be good there.

I'm going to the MUSTANG Dyno this week to get it retuned and lean it out a bit...I know the numbers will be lower than my previous Dynojet #'s (if anyone knows HOW much lower with mods in my sig). I heard from the tuner and search here that the Mustang Dyno will tune the best as they can tune at all speeds ect. I'm not really worried about the bragging rather a good tune from a good shop, which I found.

I will post the results this time if all goes to plan, promise! I was just too pissed to post my last graph after the nightmare that was last spring/summer.

thx
Ryon & Naomi

I've been working long hours

I recently upgraded my pc
but
Didn't have the time
to import over all the old email stuff

I've just found the time to create my bogus email account I use for these Stang boards

I saw your notify email come through so I wanted to jump on here to see
how things have been going for you

Best of luck and the Mustang Dyno might ... IIRC ... show anywhere
from 5 to 15% lower than a Dynojet using an SAE Calibration.

Again ... hope it all goes well for the both of you nice folks

You are due some good luck ... as I see it

Grady

'94ChickStang · May 7, 2008

final5-0 said:
You are due some good luck ... as I see it

Grady

True that

HankyGT · May 7, 2008

FWIW I would take all internet advise with a grain of salt. Not all tuners tune the same way.

My car made 296/315 on a Mustang dyno, I have no doubt I'd be close to the 340rwtq on a Dynojet.

My timing is at 10 degrees initial. Some like to put the timing back in through the computer. I run an SCT 4 bank chip; car was tuned at Powerhouse Automotive LLC.

'94ChickStang · May 7, 2008

HankyGT said:
FWIW I would take all internet advise with a grain of salt. Not all tuners tune the same way.

My car made 296/315 on a Mustang dyno, I have no doubt I'd be close to the 340rwtq on a Dynojet.

My timing is at 10 degrees initial. Some like to put the timing back in through the computer. I run an SCT 4 bank chip; car was tuned at Powerhouse Automotive LLC.

What are your mods?

**edit, sorry, checked your garage***

Dino Dino Bambino · May 7, 2008

final5-0 said:
Best of luck and the Mustang Dyno might ... IIRC ... show anywhere from 5 to 15% lower than a Dynojet using an SAE Calibration.

I've seen a comparison of dyno runs done on the same vehicle with the same engine and mods on both the Dynojet and the Mustang dyno. The weather corrected HP/TQ numbers were 6-7% lower on the Mustang dyno across the whole rpm range so that gives you an idea of the difference between them.

Dyno disappointment!!

final5-0

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