Dyno numbers TW heads, FTI cam
- Thread starter zenboy99
- Start date
This is the before and after graph. The only changes are Twisted Wedge heads, FTI custom cam and MAC off road H-pipe. The rest of the mods are in sig
http://www.corral.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=16828
http://www.corral.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=16828
WhiteDevil
New Member
Wow, i like the before and after one. It shows me what i got to look forward too. You were making almost the same power i am right now. Does the car feel like night and day faster?
Yeah it sure does! I was really glad that I didn't loose any low end torque, the car pulls so smooth.
We had really similar mods before I put the H/C in.
We had really similar mods before I put the H/C in.
moneypit94
Active Member
LOL I just realized that your using TW heads... Thats AWSOME, yet another reason im glad i went with Trick Flow instead of AFR...
Now its time to prove yourself at the track and really show the AFR guys where they went wrong with the extra money they spent... Im going to get flamed for saying all this but oh well...
Not to put any pressure on you but you better perform at the track cause then i look like an ass if you don't...
Oh and to help you out when you come down to cordova I will bring you a set of slicks to use if you want... But new axels are on you... hehehe
Now its time to prove yourself at the track and really show the AFR guys where they went wrong with the extra money they spent... Im going to get flamed for saying all this but oh well...
Not to put any pressure on you but you better perform at the track cause then i look like an ass if you don't...
Oh and to help you out when you come down to cordova I will bring you a set of slicks to use if you want... But new axels are on you... hehehe
moneypit94 said:LOL I just realized that your using TW heads... Thats AWSOME, yet another reason im glad i went with Trick Flow instead of AFR...
Now its time to prove yourself at the track and really show the AFR guys where they went wrong with the extra money they spent... Im going to get flamed for saying all this but oh well...
Not to put any pressure on you but you better perform at the track cause then i look like an ass if you don't...
OUCH! Talk about a shot right to the heart!!! Now, my only comback statement I have is that my little stock short block, AFR setup, convertible on nitto drag radials damn near matched your 331 TW setup....
J/K buddy, it all in good fun!!! I will admit that some of highest RWHP peak cars I have seen were an FTI/TW combo. White94 from the corral made 320rwhp with TW and an FTI cam... but I'm still running faster than them. Peak is not where its at though.Zen, by looking at that graph I'd guess a shift point of around 5900-6000 on the 1-2 shift, and 5800 for the 2-3 ad the 3-4 you'll have to try to 5600-5800 and see which it likes best. You got a nice power area between 4500-5500, so you want to use that to the best of your ability, that's why I wouldn't over rev it. I'm very surprised by your mid range power numbers with the TW's.
the twisted wedge gguys are also making MORE torque.
its a combination of car weight driver and track elevation. that leads towards that guys worse times.
hell just look at my times. I woudl never claim I had a better engine combo. hahahahah i would have to be crazy to say that even though i am faster than many many many heads cam cars.
guy I know made more power than that with an AFM B2 cam, performer, and trick flows on stock block. yes, he trapped 110 spinning on 18s that car defintely had some 112+ in it.
cant shake a stick at 338 torque.
Paul, I really thing you shoudl dyno at a cheap 40 dollar dyno day for the sake of everyone else. bacause your setup is obviously making power and is the best running AFR/fti setup hands down. That is why everyone follows suit on this site but they never touch you. something is waaaay different
its a combination of car weight driver and track elevation. that leads towards that guys worse times.
hell just look at my times. I woudl never claim I had a better engine combo. hahahahah i would have to be crazy to say that even though i am faster than many many many heads cam cars.
guy I know made more power than that with an AFM B2 cam, performer, and trick flows on stock block. yes, he trapped 110 spinning on 18s that car defintely had some 112+ in it.
cant shake a stick at 338 torque.
Paul, I really thing you shoudl dyno at a cheap 40 dollar dyno day for the sake of everyone else. bacause your setup is obviously making power and is the best running AFR/fti setup hands down. That is why everyone follows suit on this site but they never touch you. something is waaaay different
moneypit94
Active Member
It looks like the debate continues TFS vs AFR.. I was reading a an older post on HARDCORE50 were ED and JAy Allen were disputing heads. I like What Jay had to say about how he would take a set of Fox lake ported street heat heads and beat the AFR 225 guys every time.
http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17774
The only reason i like Twisted Wedge heads is because that is what i have... If i had AFR's i would be trying to prove they are the best. Lets face it Paul you have a Freak Car and/or driver... But im wondering if you have finally found the limits of it? On my defence I have been to the strip maybe 8-9 times ever and that includes when my car was unmodded too... Instead of practice i just add more stuff to make it go faster. Its all good though... You take what you have and make it work, I just keep changing mine.
http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17774
The only reason i like Twisted Wedge heads is because that is what i have... If i had AFR's i would be trying to prove they are the best. Lets face it Paul you have a Freak Car and/or driver... But im wondering if you have finally found the limits of it? On my defence I have been to the strip maybe 8-9 times ever and that includes when my car was unmodded too... Instead of practice i just add more stuff to make it go faster. Its all good though... You take what you have and make it work, I just keep changing mine.
95snoozer said:
I wish I new what it was because as much as I preach on here that peak numbers don't mean much and such, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'd love to see 300+rwhp on the dyno just for the sake on saying I put down over 300 to the wheels... but I can't. My STD numbers were 308rwhp but I don't remember the TQ. All of my friends have dyno'd on the same dyno as I have, and all their numbers seem to be right on with what is to be expected. I have made about 12 pulls on the dyno which is a dynojet, and all my numbers are SAE. The best I made was 294/328 with the T5, with the TKO I'd down at 293/327... same dyno but different day, so that is probably the reason for the slight change. The car lost about 2 tenths in ET since the TKO swap. Give the same 60' and 1/8th & 1/4 mile MPH my ET's after the TKO swap have been almost 2 tenths slower. I can't figure it out, but I did notice that in addition to losing 1hp and 1ftlb I lost that much and in some places more across the entire RPM range... that may be why. I'd like to throw it on a different syno just for kicks and see if in fact it does make more than 293rwhp.
I agree that 338rwtq is FREAKING IMPRESSIVE for a 302 H/C/I car... REALLY IMPRESSIVE.
Man...WTF is with the hating on AFR's...it was just a few months ago that everybody was praising them. Now I guess the "fad" is TrickFlow.
moneypit94
Active Member
I brought it up because people are spending hundreds more for AFR stuff and not really seeing the extra results for that money, not on the dyno anyway and only a few at the track.
AFR is deffenetly a good brand but is it worth the extra money? Thats up to the buyer to decide... To me it's not though...
Really i can't say much though... My heads cost me over 1700 bucks with the port job and all and if you include the o-ring job they were over 1900... Looking back that was probably a waste of money.
But hindsight is 20/20
AFR is deffenetly a good brand but is it worth the extra money? Thats up to the buyer to decide... To me it's not though...
Really i can't say much though... My heads cost me over 1700 bucks with the port job and all and if you include the o-ring job they were over 1900... Looking back that was probably a waste of money.
My novel for the day
We don't race dynos although the numbers are great for comparison and driving people's ego (THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TO ANY ONE SPECIFIC PERSON). All dyno numbers do is piss people off. Either they don't produce what they "expected" or they brag about their "great" numbers and they don't perform at the track.
The TFS ports are just too large for a stock 302. A "good" velocity is much harder to achieve on the TW heads, and once achieved, they will make more PEAK power than an AFR headed car because of the larger port volumes. AFRs will have much more useable power below "peak" than the TWs because a "good" velocity is much easier to achieve. (I'm hoping that makes sense)
The end-all of this discussion comes down to this: PROVE that a TFS headed 302 car runs harder than either an Edelbrock or AFR headed car. Track times followed by vehicle specs will suffice. I don't want to hear about how your buddy ran 3-tenths quicker to the 660' than his previous 12.12 @ 115 run. "Coulda-woulda-shoulda," but you/he/she/it did not - period.
This isn't a slam against any one individual or group of people in this posting. Moneypit, I ain't mad at 'cha brother. There seems to be a lot of the "younger" guys on here and I would hate from them to get the wrong impression by looking at JUST dyno numbers.
I would actually run a TFS head on a motor if I built the motor for it. Three hundred and two just aren't enough cubic inches for that big of a cylinder head. If I had about 10 more cubes and another point or two of compression, the TW heads would be perfect. If you want cheap, a cheap and hard running cylinder head is a GT40 P head. They have been proven time and time again.
IMO, there are much better sets of cylinder heads for a stock blocked 302 than a TFS TW head - that's all.
Joe
Ding Ding! We've got the correct answer. I guess it's the price?Imyourzero said:
We don't race dynos although the numbers are great for comparison and driving people's ego (THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TO ANY ONE SPECIFIC PERSON). All dyno numbers do is piss people off. Either they don't produce what they "expected" or they brag about their "great" numbers and they don't perform at the track.
The TFS ports are just too large for a stock 302. A "good" velocity is much harder to achieve on the TW heads, and once achieved, they will make more PEAK power than an AFR headed car because of the larger port volumes. AFRs will have much more useable power below "peak" than the TWs because a "good" velocity is much easier to achieve. (I'm hoping that makes sense)
The end-all of this discussion comes down to this: PROVE that a TFS headed 302 car runs harder than either an Edelbrock or AFR headed car. Track times followed by vehicle specs will suffice. I don't want to hear about how your buddy ran 3-tenths quicker to the 660' than his previous 12.12 @ 115 run. "Coulda-woulda-shoulda," but you/he/she/it did not - period.
This isn't a slam against any one individual or group of people in this posting. Moneypit, I ain't mad at 'cha brother. There seems to be a lot of the "younger" guys on here and I would hate from them to get the wrong impression by looking at JUST dyno numbers.
I would actually run a TFS head on a motor if I built the motor for it. Three hundred and two just aren't enough cubic inches for that big of a cylinder head. If I had about 10 more cubes and another point or two of compression, the TW heads would be perfect. If you want cheap, a cheap and hard running cylinder head is a GT40 P head. They have been proven time and time again.
IMO, there are much better sets of cylinder heads for a stock blocked 302 than a TFS TW head - that's all.
Joe
moneypit94
Active Member
No harm here. Honestly i expected to take some harder hits from people...
sorry zen for taking over your thread...
sorry zen for taking over your thread...
Well said Joe. The TrickFlow guys always have good dyno numbers in their sigs, but peak numbers are only good for bragging rights. Area under the curve is what matters, and in every flow & dyno test I've seen the AFR's have a better total power curve than the Tricks. Killercanary is one of the best examples of that. His AFR/FTI combo propelled him to a 12.31 in a SN95 convertible with what, 293rwhp? So why are all the guys with the 310-320 rwhp TrickFlow combos still stuck in the high 12's and low/mid 13's? 
I'm not saying you can't run good times with TrickFlow heads...I'm just agreeing with Joe--they are not the ideal head for a 302. AFR 165 is a better match IMO.
I'm not saying you can't run good times with TrickFlow heads...I'm just agreeing with Joe--they are not the ideal head for a 302. AFR 165 is a better match IMO.
moneypit94
Active Member
We will see... i think Zenboy has the potential to show a few people that the TFS head can indead be a good 302 head. Those are some good numbers and at fairly low rpms too... Like mentioned before, gotta prove it at the track...
I've noticed several of Ed's combos have that very slight double hump in the torque curve. Nice curves and numbers.
trick flow is not the fadImyourzero said:
it has been THE base small block ford head for years, just on this site it got eclipsed by poeple pushing AFrs due to Paul's sucess. People who didnt know their stuff and just looked at his numbers pushed this setup on everyone and bashed the others as not being the best. Just an observation
tmoss said:
sorry, but if you look at the dyno that hump is due to the fact that his AF drops below his setups optimum efficiency.
just an observation
if it was 13.4 right there in that area, he might actually peak lower and with 1 or 2 morte ft pounds
