Dyno #s

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

Thought I'd post up a tune from last nite that is fairly typical and gives Grady some more fodder to play with.

Last pull (and chart below) was done in "DynoJet" mode on the MustangDyne (which in my experience is still about 3% less than the DynoJets around us but good enough for comparison)

Mods:
302 (130k miles), Trickflow heads/intake, Longtubes, 24#, 75mm MAF, aluminum flywheel/driveshaft, Anderson N41 cam, Longtubes/x/catback

Dyno chart 317hp/327tq

Enjoy!

Wes

Pokageek · Dec 30, 2008

Nice. The aluminum flywheel probably helps with the drive-line loss a little too. Also, do you have a high lift cam? The tq is good but lower on the low end. I would expect 300rwtq by 3k rpm. NM, I just realized it is close. The numbers are not as wide spread as the blocks lol.

drakesdad · Dec 30, 2008

Good numbers Wes, I dyno'd on a Mustang Dyno and i've always wanted to find a Dynojet to compare, just for the heck of it to see the difference.

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

I've got quite a few back to back comparisons - 15-18% is pretty normal on N/A, I've seen 20-25% on turbo cars and vehicles with poor aero.

Wes

P.S. Nothing like tuning on a dyno capable of holding accurate load. I got to use a DynoDynamics unit/Pontiac GTO at PRI in Orlando and really liked it as well.

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

Pokageek said:
Nice. The aluminum flywheel probably helps with the drive-line loss a little too. Also, do you have a high lift cam? The tq is good but lower on the low end. I would expect 300rwtq by 3k rpm. NM, I just realized it is close. The numbers are not as wide spread as the blocks lol.

Customer had N41 cam, stock Trickflow valvetrain on this one.

Wes

95BlueStallion · Dec 30, 2008

Interesting. Thanks for posting that up. How was the idle with that cam?

Grn92LX · Dec 30, 2008

Cool combo! Now add an rpm intake, 30's, 75 tb and some 4.10's

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

95BlueStallion said:
Interesting. Thanks for posting that up. How was the idle with that cam?

900rpm was where we left it - below that the adaptive learning really got thrown for a loop with the overlap. Lots of work with ISC/fueling/HEGO delay.

I do not think most tuners would go through the hassle but he wanted a better idle and more lope. Cam sounded very nice.

Wes

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

Grn92LX said:
Cool combo! Now add an rpm intake, 30's, 75 tb and some 4.10's

Another good bit of data, injectors were at 88% dutycycle at peaks on this combo.

Wes

95BlueStallion · Dec 30, 2008

Stanger007 said:
900rpm was where we left it - below that the adaptive learning really got thrown for a loop with the overlap. Lots of work with ISC/fueling/HEGO delay.

I do not think most tuners would go through the hassle but he wanted a better idle and more lope. Cam sounded very nice.

Wes

I too am going to be that picky customer when my time comes, which is why I asked. If you werent 950 miles away, I would probably tow my car over for a tune once my H/C/I is completed. I want that mean idle, AND decent drivability and am willing to sacrifice a little power to get it. Im impressed with the power this car made, especially after you got the idle sorted out well. Job well done.

final5-0 · Dec 30, 2008

Stanger007 said:
900rpm was where we left it - below that the adaptive learning really got thrown for a loop with the overlap. Lots of work with ISC/fueling/HEGO delay.

I do not think most tuners would go through the hassle but he wanted a better idle and more lope. Cam sounded very nice.

Wes

Yes ... Yes ... Yes

Overlap can make for ... shall we say ... A bit of extra work
when it comes to a ... very stable idle :Word:

As has been said before on here ... raise up the idle speed
and
That goes a very long way to helping things

Also ... 88% dc with 24's don't surprise me one little bit

Hey Wes

I wanna be clear on what I think you are saying

Do you feel a MD is 15 to 18% less than DJ ???

Grady

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

final5-0 said:
Hey Wes

I wanna be clear on what I think you are saying

Do you feel a MD is 15 to 18% less than DJ ???

Therein is the kicker. No two dynos are identical. BUT... I have quite a few customers that dyno on mine and then the DynoJet down the road. 15-18% is the spread on the N/A cars. The forced induction cars seem to have quite a bit more spread, turbos especially since they thrive on load.

I always do a baseline pull (on combos where it's safe to do so) and then build on that. It is really the only way to be for sure where you start from, too many variables and guys fudging numbers.

Our dyno was calibrated by a MustangDyne tech in August but it does read fairly low. I do like to see the cars I tuned with "low" numbers wax the other guys with higher #s at the track.

Wes

final5-0 · Dec 30, 2008

Stanger007 said:
Therein is the kicker. No two dynos are identical. BUT... I have quite a few customers that dyno on mine and then the DynoJet down the road. 15-18% is the spread on the N/A cars. The forced induction cars seem to have quite a bit more spread, turbos especially since they thrive on load.

I always do a baseline pull (on combos where it's safe to do so) and then build on that. It is really the only way to be for sure where you start from, too many variables and guys fudging numbers.

Our dyno was calibrated by a MustangDyne tech in August but it does read fairly low. I do like to see the cars I tuned with "low" numbers wax the other guys with higher #s at the track.

Wes

I thought I had your meaning straight but I really wanted to make sure

I've seen the same tendency in the data I've looked at over the years

I told someone a year or so ago in a pm I've seen MDs usually read less
than DJs. This guy kept pressing me for more specific info. At that time
all I felt I could do is tell him my findings were almost exclusive to stick
trans combos so the variance one sees with auto dyno results were
not in place. All I could give him was my data showed at least 5% and
on the other end I had seen a few cases of 20%. Most of my data has
been done with the OEM short block or a 306 and application has
had a focus of NA street type combos you could say.

btw Wes ... You know how some DJ pulls are done with a STD
cal and some are done with SAE .............

Do you have experience or findings to show any kind of rule of thumb

You know ... something like ... A STD cal is gonna show X% higher than SAE

Grady

moostangvert · Dec 30, 2008

Stanger007 said:
Therein is the kicker. No two dynos are identical. BUT... I have quite a few customers that dyno on mine and then the DynoJet down the road. 15-18% is the spread on the N/A cars. The forced induction cars seem to have quite a bit more spread, turbos especially since they thrive on load.

I always do a baseline pull (on combos where it's safe to do so) and then build on that. It is really the only way to be for sure where you start from, too many variables and guys fudging numbers.

Our dyno was calibrated by a MustangDyne tech in August but it does read fairly low. I do like to see the cars I tuned with "low" numbers wax the other guys with higher #s at the track.

Wes

hey, thats what i plan on doing! hahahahaha. them f-bodys better watch out.
o yea, this is Dat. o yea, was that a manual or auto car?

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

final5-0 said:
btw Wes ... You know how some DJ pulls are done with a STD
cal and some are done with SAE .............

Do you have experience or findings to show any kind of rule of thumb

You know ... something like ... A STD cal is gonna show X% higher than SAE

There's quite a few different variations of standard conditions and calibrations, that factored into dyno calibration and accuracy really makes it a mixed bag - I do not believe there is any way to compare runs with precision between different dynos.

Even the way you strap the car can change the #s!

But regardless, comparing charts has a good deal of merit for seeing trends. Invaluable info if you ask me but like any good tool you gotta realize it's strengths and weaknesses.

I tuned another car tonite that might be interesting to post, 95 Cobra with similar mods to last nite but an X303 cam.

Wes

Stanger007 · Dec 30, 2008

moostangvert said:
o yea, this is Dat. o yea, was that a manual or auto car?

Hey dude, 3650 if I remember correctly. Your #s with the blower/stock hci are holding up quite well against the built hci cars.

Wes

Grn92LX · Dec 31, 2008

Stanger007 said:
Another good bit of data, injectors were at 88% dutycycle at peaks on this combo.

Wes

Yeah no suprise here. Its amazing how far people w/o tuning software think 24's will go when in reality, they won't.

Black95GTS · Dec 31, 2008

Stanger007 said:
Thought I'd post up a tune from last nite that is fairly typical and gives Grady some more fodder to play with.

Last pull (and chart below) was done in "DynoJet" mode on the MustangDyne (which in my experience is still about 3% less than the DynoJets around us but good enough for comparison)

Mods:
302 (130k miles), Trickflow heads/intake, Longtubes, 24#, 75mm MAF, aluminum flywheel/driveshaft, Anderson N41 cam, Longtubes/x/catback

Dyno chart 317hp/327tq

Enjoy!

Wes

Thanks for the post! Couple questions:

Was this a street heat or a track heat? I'm guessing street heat because the HP noses over around 5500.

If it was a street heat, from your experience, what do you think a track heat would have done in terms of both area under the curve and peak?

If it was a track heat, do you think an intake change would have let the HP carry further in the RPMs?

Without giving away trade secrets, are you using stock fuel pressure?

Was this a Fox or SN95?

thank you Jedi master,

Adam

Stanger007 · Dec 31, 2008

Black95GTS said:
Was this a street heat or a track heat? I'm guessing street heat because the HP noses over around 5500.

You got it - untouched street heat.

Black95GTS said:

If it was a street heat, from your experience, what do you think a track heat would have done in terms of both area under the curve and peak?

Click to expand...

On this combo I think the track heat would have given us another 10 or so up top with not very much loss down low (WOT graph here). I would expect steady state tuning (EG mimicking *part throttle* cruise) would be down a bit but I don't have hard #s to prove it. See next question too...

Black95GTS said:

If it was a track heat, do you think an intake change would have let the HP carry further in the RPMs?

Click to expand...

I think the further up in the RPM question starts to rely on several things, most importantly being a proper valvetrain. You will make or break a combo on the valvetrain when you start spinning it up. The trickflow valve springs aren't on the top of my list for springs that are ideal to zing up. There really is a science to the topend, talking with cam guys on custom grinds will blow your mind.

Black95GTS said:

Without giving away trade secrets, are you using stock fuel pressure?

Click to expand...

Stock fuel pressure, fuel tuned to LBT (Lean best torque). Added spark until the torque peaked on the dyno and backed it off 2*.

Black95GTS said:

Was this a Fox or SN95?

Click to expand...

A9L Fox here, for WOT tuning they are frightening similar to the SN95s. I've got a J4J1 (95 Cobra) car from last nite that had a similar combo except for the cam and it's WOT tuning ended up almost identical. Ironically I had to do very very little on the idle for it being a SN95 with 30# injectors and C&L 76mm MAF. I've got to contact the owner to make sure he's cool with posting #s (I always like to check) and I'll post it up for dissection if he is.

Wes

Stanger007 · Dec 31, 2008

Grn92LX said:
Yeah no suprise here. Its amazing how far people w/o tuning software think 24's will go when in reality, they won't.

30# injector car last nite with similar #s had 68% dutycycle. Same fuel pressure - 39psi base)

Wes

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