dynoed my car today...how'd i do??

moneypit94 · Mar 28, 2006

FastDriver said:
I hate the ensuing attacks that will come from discrediting a guy with such a fast car, but this....every bit of this.... is nonsense.

Chris

explain why this is nonsence? This was what i was told by the different turbo companies themselves... I actually took what Brian from B&G said to me almost word for word.

(we were talking about 1000 rwhp cars, so i could see how this might not be applicable to smaller combinations but the guy is looking for 20 psi on a 408 or 418 (can't remember which) so hes looking around 1000 fwhp if not more.)

Anyways he said that a single turbo would be more street friendly as to were twins would have attency to feel like a stage of nitrous and break the tires free a lot easier (which is not all that good on the street) and that he recommended a twin setup for racing, to get the power faster, but if your looking for great peak dyno numbers a single turbo will do it but the area under the curve won't be as great as a twin setup.

You have a turbo car yourself so tell us what your thoughts are... Remember though we are talking bigger cubic inches then a 302 and 20psi so theres other factors to consider.

FastDriver · Mar 28, 2006

Ok, I'm sort of just scanning the forum now and getting home, but I'll post my thoughts tomorrow while I'm at work.

Chris

94convgt · Mar 28, 2006

FastDriver said:
Why are you constantly wrenching on the turbo cars? Getting the tune right is tricky, but after that, you can drive them for 50k miles without a problem.

Chris

My statement was also in reply to a car with lots of horsepower 1000+rwhp. When going turbo there are the little things that can fail. Also don't get ME wrong, i love turbo cars and know a ton about them but for the average Joe who doesn't i was just saying a s/c would be the most carefree way to go. The s/c only knows what boost you tell it by choice of pulley's. A turbo has to be set with a boost controller/wastegate in which both can fail and do on occasion. I really don't want to get into a big debate about turbo vs. s/c because like i said....i actually prefer turbo.

I just think there are a few less things that can go wrong with a s/c'd car vs. turbo'd car for the average guy.

FastDriver · Mar 29, 2006

moneypit94 said:
Far as single vs twins... They say a single turbo is more street friendly, and twins are better for the track (much more area under the curve) if your looking for street manors i say a single turbo. Twins will want to load up to fast for the street IMO.

A single turbo is no more or less friendly than a twin turbo combo. People seem to be under the impression that twin turbos spool faster than a single turbo will. All the "power under the curve" talk is refering to the concept that the twin-turbo setup will spool first and then reach the same power-band that the larger single turbo will. It's not the case though.

Turbo sizing and A/R ratio are the most important factors in the determination of the spool time, the efficiency of the turbos at a given power level, and the maximum power output of the engine. If I select the properly sized twin turbos (assuming that they exist) all of the above will be almost identical. With the same type of bearings, I could select a smaller single that will spool more quickly than the twins, and would give more "area under the curve" for a limited power level. Or, if the twins are running a .68 A/R for example, you might drop to a .58 A/R for a quicker spool, but you'd also give up a little potential power. That potential power doesn't matter to the guy who's limited to making the power that a combination can handle, or if hes restricted to using pump gas.

I think the idea that twins inherently spool more quickly than a single turbo is something of a myth. In fact, I think that it's very likely, albeit insignificatly, the other way around since there are more rotating parts and more rotating mass with two turbos as opposed to one.

Just some thoughts,

Chris

FastDriver · Mar 29, 2006

94convgt said:
My statement was also in reply to a car with lots of horsepower 1000+rwhp. When going turbo there are the little things that can fail. Also don't get ME wrong, i love turbo cars and know a ton about them but for the average Joe who doesn't i was just saying a s/c would be the most carefree way to go. The s/c only knows what boost you tell it by choice of pulley's. A turbo has to be set with a boost controller/wastegate in which both can fail and do on occasion. I really don't want to get into a big debate about turbo vs. s/c because like i said....i actually prefer turbo.

I just think there are a few less things that can go wrong with a s/c'd car vs. turbo'd car for the average guy.

No doubt about it, there are more parts and more potential for problems on a turbo charged motor, but you made it seem like they're unreliable, or a lot of work to keep running. I can't agree with that. After installing and tuning my Incon kit, I haven't had a single problem - that's roughly 10k miles. Now, I'm disassembling it to build a better motor. I blew my old motor up because I got so aggressive with it.... no fault of the turbo kit.

Chris

moneypit94 · Mar 29, 2006

Explain why people would even consider twin turbos?

Everything i have ever seen or heard would say differently about twins spooling up faster, this includes some personal experience.

So if you were looking at the same peak numbers (which doesn't mean all that much in racing) and you had a single turbo and a twin turbo that made these numbers at the same rpm that the single turbo might have more area under the curve?

Im just curious why people would spend more money and deal with a lot more plumbing if it actually hurts them... Including yourself...

FastDriver · Mar 30, 2006

I'm going with another twin turbo setup because of the huge flexability of the T4 housing. I can go from 55mm turbos all the way to twin 76s. Which means that at any point down the line if I decide to make my engine a high rpm drag-race only combination, I will not have to replace everything; I'd just have to change the turbos to get upwards of 2000 hp (twin T76s).

There's nothing wrong with twins, but I don't believe that they are inherently superior in any way, in terms of making power and spool time, than a single.

My twin turbo kit works great, fits with the stock accessories, hides under the heads for added sleeper effect, and spools very quickly (because the turbos are only GTBB28s).... that's why I bought it. Plus, I think it's just a little more trick to say that I've got a "twin-turbo" mustang instead of just a "turbo" mustang. Would a single 61mm ball-bearing turbo spool just as quickly (probably even more quickly) and be capable of the same amount of power? Absolutely.

Chris

zenboy99 · Mar 30, 2006

FastDriver said:
There's nothing wrong with twins, but I don't believe that they are inherently superior in any way, in terms of making power and spool time, than a single.

Take a look at the different drag race sactioning bodies, given the weight breaks and cubic inch limitations on twins vs single, looks like in the real world twins are the way to go. All the fast 10.5" cars are running twins. Just stating what I see, not wanting to start a flame fest.

Redsnake2 · Mar 30, 2006

Hey I'm running Twins on my car, well in about 3 weeks i start the install.. I'm doing twins because of the faster spool time and you can use a smaller turbo and get the same HP as a big one (T76 or T88) Now of course there is more cost to 2 turbos and 2 wastegates, but I'm finding the plumbing isn't that much more.. I have 2 T3/T4 hybrids with 50 trim rated at 400hp each so i can atleast get 800HP if i chose to max them out...

Plus: it really sounds bad ass when you say "I have a twin turbo mustang.."

but the really big question is: How did this turn into a turbo discussion?

94convgt · Mar 30, 2006

I would have to say that's it's a real toss up on the twins vs. single but i think a single would be the best way to go. Less money which means less parts which means less headaches.

Either way would work fine with properly sized turbos, wastegates, and headers. Either way could also be made close in spool time and power.

I really don't see the benefit of going twin other than to say "i've got a twin turbo Mustang" or if your racing in certain sanctioning bodies.

FastDriver · Mar 31, 2006

zenboy99 said:
Take a look at the different drag race sactioning bodies, given the weight breaks and cubic inch limitations on twins vs single, looks like in the real world twins are the way to go. All the fast 10.5" cars are running twins. Just stating what I see, not wanting to start a flame fest.

I'm not a class-racer and have no idea about them. There's no question though, that twin 76mm turbos are capable of making a lot more power than a single 76. So, it all depends on the rules applying to turbos in that class.

How many turbos do the pro5.0 guys run?

Chris

zenboy99 · Mar 31, 2006

Pro 5.0 guys can only run a single power adder (NMRA rule 1.25 under Diablo Pro 5.0). The NMRA was critisized for this since not many people could cross over from different sanctioning bodies. Now the rules have been massaged enough to allow some big block cars from the IHRA to be competitive.

94convgt · Apr 1, 2006

Ran my car last night with not so good results. We worked on it for quite a few hours trying to get everything massaged to fit the bigger rubber. I put some 28x10.5 M/T ET drags on my Bogarts, put the skinnies on, raised the front up, took the swaybar off, changed the plugs, changed tranny fluid, and a few other things. Got it all together and hauled ass to the track. The line was absolutely insane but thank god we have a friend on the inside. Made a call and got past the line and didn't even have to pay or tech. Pulled me in the gate right behind the tower.

I let the car cool down for about 15mins and lined it up to go. In that time i changed all my launch settings for the larger sticky rubber. I set the 2step for 4200 and hoped for the best. We all agreed that i was going to ride the clutch out the 1st pass and see how it did.

I did my little burnout....still getting used to the bigger tires. Pulled up and staged.....forgot everything and thought "maybe i can pull the front end off the ground for the crowd and the video crew....yeah that would be cool" (i didn't really think that....just being a smartass) So i proceeded to SIDE STEP the clutch like a ****ING MORON!!!

Anyway...here's the video if it works right. I guess my Eaton diff and 31 Superior axles that are sitting in my downstairs bedroom will have a better place to call home now. I also got a good assraping on the tow home which was $245....that made it all better

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/D...621820&nodeID=71972622&alreadyCurrentTab=true

Killercanary · Apr 1, 2006

DOH! That sucks man! I used to fear that all the time when i was on the stock axles and such. Be careful with the eaton though, many guys have split the casings in half with hard launches. I run on but I typically slip the clutch out on the launch.

The car looked and sounded bad ass though! I LOVE the sound of a two step!

94convgt · Apr 1, 2006

Killercanary said:
DOH! That sucks man! I used to fear that all the time when i was on the stock axles and such. Be careful with the eaton though, many guys have split the casings in half with hard launches. I run on but I typically slip the clutch out on the launch.

The car looked and sounded bad ass though! I LOVE the sound of a two step!

Thanks! I'll have it setup normal next time and let me tell you it sounds waaaaaay sicker! It pops and shoots flames It's more for my enjoyment and to see the looks on peoples faces around me but it still works. I was just in a hurry and didn't have time to reset everything with the higher rpm.

That's good to know about the Eaton....thanks for the heads up. I was supposed to slip the clutch a little but my little devil stepped in and said "GO FOR IT"! That's what i'll be doing NEXT time i go to the track.

94convgt · Apr 1, 2006

Couple pics i just took to show the big meats......DAMN i love the look of it with these tires on!!!

94GTLaserRC · Apr 2, 2006

94convgt said:
........Anyway...here's the video if it works right. I guess my Eaton diff and 31 Superior axles that are sitting in my downstairs bedroom will have a better place to call home now. I also got a good assraping on the tow home which was $245....that made it all better

That Sucks. let us know how it turns out.
RC

YEAHLOH95 · Apr 2, 2006

it looks bad a s s with those on the back i wish i could fit tires that bag the vid isn't working

94convgt · Apr 3, 2006

94GTLaserRC said:
That Sucks. let us know how it turns out.
RC

Thanks and i'll update for sure when i get to the track again. The rear is getting fixed in the next couple of days so it should be ready to go by next track day.

94convgt · Apr 3, 2006

YEAHLOH95 said:
it looks bad a s s with those on the back i wish i could fit tires that bag the vid isn't working

Thanks! The vid just worked for me...try it again. Just click on it if it doesn't allow you to save it.

dynoed my car today...how'd i do??

moneypit94

Active Member

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

94convgt

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

moneypit94

Active Member

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

zenboy99

Redsnake2

New Member

94convgt

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

zenboy99

94convgt

Killercanary

The car that set the bar.

94convgt

94convgt

94GTLaserRC

Squint as you approach, lest you be blinded by my

YEAHLOH95

94convgt

94convgt

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dynoed my car today...how'd i do??

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The car that set the bar.

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