E85 and new Engine Build.

I don't remember much from my Alternative Fuels class, but Ford does have some porduction vehicles called Flex Fuel cars. These cars could sense what the ethanol mixture was, and adjusted the a/f, timing, and inj pw accordingly.

Maybe someone else can give a better explanation? I didn't pay much attention in that class.

jason

it's not ford, it's GM

All I know is that you have to run more fuel, and you can't use certain materials (maybe aluminum?).

Check e85fuel.com I think they have more information.

You will need to tune for one or the other unless you intend to adapt a computer other than a Ford EEC to the application.

Another option might be to run something like a TwEECer and have a tune stored for Gas and one for E85. Either way, you're going to need some MONSTER fuel injectors.

89Notch said:

it's not ford, it's GM

All I know is that you have to run more fuel, and you can't use certain materials (maybe aluminum?).

Check e85fuel.com I think they have more information.

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Ford has been building flex fuel vehicles for several years now...

if you use any rubber fuel lines-they deteriorate super quick

aluminum is a go for alcohol...Holley and barry grant have been building alcohol carbs for decades now, they just have different materials inside for corrosion prevention, due to the fact that alcohol will absorb water and...well, you figure it out from there

I'm sure GM built some flex fuel cars as well.

Most of these things went to Canada if memory serves, but rumor was that some made it down here by chance.

Making 800 HP from a Windsor engine…

One of the first things you need to remember is that the stock 302 block isn’t reliable above 450-500 HP They tend to split down the lifter valley, ruining everything. Making 800 HP on a 302 block would be a very short lived proposition.

The 800 HP figure is best achieved using some big cubic inches to start with. If you make 500 HP naturally aspirated, making another 300 HP with pressurized induction is much less of a strain and can be done at lower boost levels. A 10:1 compression ratio on an engine with pressurized induction isn’t going to be a good combination with very much boost. Detonation will surely appear and can easily destroy an engine in a few seconds. Your best bet is a low compression ratio (8.25- 8.75:1) 4 bolt main Dart or Word Castings 351W style block with a 408-427 cubic inch displacement. World Castings has crate engines assembled and ready to go, but they are very expensive - $7K-$9K. The upside is that each engine has been run on a dyno and has a 2 year warranty. Plan on spending some big $$$ for big cubic inches if you want 800 HP in a reliable form. Rick 91GT here on Stangnet can custom build you any size engine you want, and I would certainly consider him when it comes to building your engine.

Some things to do first – while you are getting ready for the engine, there are some things to do first. You will need a reliable chassis setup to communicate all the power to the pavement. Maximum Motorsports (http://www.maximummotorsports.com) & Griggs ( http://www.griggsracing.com) are the two top companies that come to mind. Maximum Motorsports grip in a box and the Griggs GR40 series kits have everything you need in one package, all guaranteed to work together. Plan on spending $1800-$2000 for a torque arm kit & some Koni shocks.
A reliable transmission is the next item: the T5 won’t last long at anything above stock power levels. A built C4 three speed automatic, viper grade T56 six speed or Tremec TKO 600 five speed will be needed. See www.artcarr.com/ for the auto trans, www.ddperformance.com or http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/ for the T56 or TKO 600. The auto trans is the cheapest at about $1600, and is probably best for serious drag racing since it will be the most consistent in the critical 60 foot launch area. The T56 is the most fun, but at $2900-$3500, it is the most expensive. It requires an installation kit with a driveshaft, some special weld in mount brackets and other items. The TKO 600 is the middle range guy ($1600-$1900) and needs a new bellhousing, driveshaft yoke & modification to the existing crossmember to fit.

Smaller dollar items are things like a new radiator (copper/brass for $180, aluminum for a little more), a 255 LPH fuel pump, a adjustable fuel pressure regulator, new MAF/Mass Air conversion ($300), new 75 MM TB ($200). An Aeromotive fuel system with pump, fuel lines & FPR is one way to handle the fuel problem. Fuel injectors – 800 HP requires a 60 LB or better injector. The plumbing from the tank to the engine will need to be AN 8 & 10 tubing. For an initial get it on the road effort, you’ll need a minimum of 36 LB injectors for use without pressurized induction.


The computer/engine management system will need something extra, be it a Tweecer or F.A.S.T system. The Tweecer RT is the more affordable and probably has the most support. The Tweecer requires a laptop to load the data into the engine computer and has a significant learning curve. That means if you are going with the Tweecer start early.

Where to start? Do a Mass Air Conversion and get that working – you’ll need it first to get the new engine running. See http://www.stangnet.com/tech/maf/massairconversion.html for the how to do it. The next step depends on what shape your current engine/driveline is in. If the engine is worn out, do a low compression crate motor with big cubes. Save the blower for later when you have gotten the chassis and driveline working together for minimum 1/4 mile ET’s. If the current engine is still going strong, not burning oil and has good compression, work the driveline & chassis.

All the above assumes that you have a suitable place to work, tools to do it and lots of mechanical experience.

The Flex Fuel vehicles Ford produces (new F-150s) do have an adaptive strategy that can add more spark based on the amount of E85 being run through the engine. This allows consumers to run straight gasoline and then mix E85 into their tank and still need slightly better results.

E85 allows more timing however, it is not readily available in many areas and requires more fuel to be burned to yield the same amount of power from typical gasolines. Also, gasolines have special additives that can help keep the fuel system clean. E85 doesn't have as many additives - this is another thing to consider. Even Flex Fuel vehicles are recommended a tank of straight gas after 5 fuelings of E85 fuel.

vristang said:

I'm sure GM built some flex fuel cars as well.

Most of these things went to Canada if memory serves, but rumor was that some made it down here by chance.

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we have a **** ton of flex fuel cars/ trucks from GM here in Indiana. Actually right now we have a sale going on were if you live in the flex fuel area you can buy a brand new 06 flex fuel pick up for like 12 grand. And thats the full size xtended cab big boy. They are really pushing them so they got so screamin deals