EFI or no?

[skywalker]

Since I'm looking at getting a 408W, and that will mean a new intake, new distributor and new carb anyways, I'm wondering if this might be a good time to go EFI? Anyone think I'll be better off, or worse off? The electrical stuff scares me not (I'm pretty damned good with anything that involves electricity but I am also studying electrical and computer engineering and used to fish walls for wires.)

Anyone want to list some upsides or down sides? Recommend some intakes, good donor cars to source things like fuel rails, EEC-IV chips, base wiring harnesses, et cetera? I would think that the fuel rails on a 5.0 would still be compatible on the 5.8, but obviously an injector upgrade will be necessary.

Chime in at will.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

EFI is nice when its all tuned perfectly and the bugs ironed out, but its hell until then. With a 408, you're going to need dyno time and probably some kind of chip burned for the ECU. Another option is to get a twEECer and prog it yourself or find someone who can. For a healthy 408, you'll probably need at least 30lb injectors, maybe even 36 or 42. Look for the stuff from a mass-air Mustang and an A9L computer.

 

[65up2d8]

I will gladly post my stupid is as stupid does vote on this topic. I have had a Holley Pro-jection 670 cfm throttle body setup for over 10 years. Of course, as I am sure you are aware, this is little more than a two barrel carb with a dumb-a**, by today's standards, computer actuating the 2 injectors, thereby controlling the flow of fuel, choke, accelerator pump, etc. Regardless, I haven't had to screw with the thing at all (other than twist on the little controls on the CPU for sharts and giggles) in all that time, and I have been amazed by its efficiency for such a rudimentary setup. Hands down, in my opinion, it beats the crap out of the Autolite and Holley 4 barrel carbs I've tried on the same engine and had to constantly screw with.
I have also driven Fox body cars w/ serious cams that would purr like a kitten putting around but that would scream like a banshee when opened up and quickly hit 6,500 rpm's. I know there are a good deal of old school carburetor guys on this forum, and more power to them. I believe they are absolutely correct when they say a properly tuned carb will deliver the same performance, if not slightly better, on the dragstrip, but in IMHO, carbs don't compare w/ F.I. in terms of driveability w/ wild combos.
I will admit freely that I don't know the best intake components, etc. on the market today. A few years ago, when I was really into this topic, I would have had no qualms recommending the GT-40 tubular upper. Today, I'm sure that information would be dated, especially in the advent of stroker buildups. My suggestion would be to pick up a 5.0 or late model mag at your local newsstand and check the resources on the 5.0 forum of Stangnet.

P.S. My commment regarding Fox body cars certainly had a good deal to do w/ the roller cam engines in those vehicles, at least from 1986 1/2 onward, which are the cars that I've driven. I refuse to let myself get hung out to dry for the flames I will receive for that comment w/out at least some qualification. Let the burning flesh begin!!!!!

 

[TT670]

Driveability is the key word here, EFI can tame some of the wildest motors. Carbs no doubt can make equal power, but no way can it match the constantly varying timing and fuel curves that EFI provides. Although to get max power you may need a dyno tune,you dont NEED one to have good running street car. Ive got a buddy with a sweet running 427 stroker, runs a stock A9P processor 36 lb injectors ,matching air meter on an otherwise stock control system. For a 408 a holley systemax intake would work good, so would a vic jr, or even a performer RPM. A GT40, cobra or explorer intake would probably choke the power on the top end but make killer torque down low. stock fuel rails will be fine, but you'll need a higher output pump than a stock ford pump. You can source most of the parts from any mass air car, but the 89-93 mass air mustangs are the donor car of choice.

 

[skywalker]

Driveability is the key word here, EFI can tame some of the wildest motors. Carbs no doubt can make equal power, but no way can it match the constantly varying timing and fuel curves that EFI provides. Although to get max power you may need a dyno tune,you dont NEED one to have good running street car. Ive got a buddy with a sweet running 427 stroker, runs a stock A9P processor 36 lb injectors ,matching air meter on an otherwise stock control system. For a 408 a holley systemax intake would work good, so would a vic jr, or even a performer RPM. A GT40, cobra or explorer intake would probably choke the power on the top end but make killer torque down low. stock fuel rails will be fine, but you'll need a higher output pump than a stock ford pump. You can source most of the parts from any mass air car, but the 89-93 mass air mustangs are the donor car of choice.

What about return line...mustang's plus sells a fuel sending unit which has been modified to accept a return line, does that sound like a reasonable method?

 

[cougar_68]

I think the spyder intake from pro-idustries/coast high performance (I think) would be a cool intake to try. One thing to worry about with a 351 based motor is hood clearance with the efi intakes and this intake seems a little bit "shorter". I couldn't get my track heat to fit with the 1" spacer so I had to throw the spacer out. I think a 351 is an inch taller than a 302? Could be wrong. Also, my car is a cougar so clearance may or may not be different.

 

[rufusbooth]

Well…my personal opinion pretty much matches the posters above. Drivability is key here. If you drive your car for any significant amount of time you will love the EFI. A carb just cannot beat the “hands off” abilities of the EFI system. A carb can make just as much power as EFI but the EFI system will be able to cope with the wilder setups and not break a sweat.

Now here is where I personally stray from the above posters. I would not use any electronics or harness from any donor car. I would grab a harness to harvest connectors for injectors and sensors but that is it. I am using a Megasquirt system and I am totally happy. It is much easier to build your own harness rather than trying to cleanup and adapt the factory harness to your vehicle.

I like the Megasquirt system for several reasons:

It is totally controllable.
The system is open source. If there is something that you do not like about the system…grab the source code and change it.
You build the hardware and thus understand it fully.
No Mass air meter restrictions in your intake.
It is a proven system that is very reliable.
The engine harness is MUCH simpler than a factory ford harness.
It is a system that is meant to be universal and can be adapted to many components.
It directly supports EDIS so you can ditch the dizzy if you wish and it supports the TFI distributor it you don’t.
If you change your system (like add a supercharger) just hook your car up to a laptop and retune it. No expensive chips or tuning software.


I am not putting down the EEC-IV computer it is an excellent setup but the tuneability of Megasquirt and price points just makes sense for me to run the MS system.

www.megasquirt.info
www.msefi.com


Hope that helps,

Rufus

 

[Focker67]

Skywalker, I am converting my mild 302 to EFI as we speak. Although my post count is low, I have been building Mustangs for 10 years and went to start posting again and my user name and password weren't accepted. I am gathering parts now and the conversion will begin shortly. I plan on posting lots of pics! I say EFI for a non original street/track car.

 

[jikelly]

I'm sure that you are already aware that you can't use the 5.0 EFI lower intake on a 351w. Check out this thread on the Holly projection system. It contains info on the mega squirt EFI controler that looks pretty cool. http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=550541

I've got a 351w and have been thinking about going EFI but the cost for the conversion means that it will be something I do in a couple of years if at all.

 

[hcar]

Heres a cool kit
http://www.twminduction.com/v8_kits/v8_kits-FR.html

 

[TT670]

What about return line...mustang's plus sells a fuel sending unit which has been modified to accept a return line, does that sound like a reasonable method?

If you can solder you can make your own return line into the sending unit. Buy a 1 foot length of streel fuel line, cut and bent it to your liking. Drill a hole in the sending unit that corresponds with the tube diameter, clean anf lux both and solder it in.. Mine been like that for 3 yrs and thats how the unit you mention from M+ is done. Much cleaner and more professional looking than the hillbilly method of running a return thru your trunk to a elbow tapped into the filler neck.

 

[66P51GT]

Check out Mass Flo EFI as well. They have systems for all Ford small blocks.

System uses a Ford Computer, Edelbrock Victor Intake with Fuel Bosses, and a LS1 1000cfm throttle body. It is one of the cleanest aftermarket systems out there and doesn't really use any propriatary components.

One of the features I really like about it is you can use a standard air cleaner for a vintage look (assuming it will fit under your hood).

 

[skywalker]

I'm liking alot of what I am seeing. Tthe only concern for me: cost. Mind you, I might be able to offset some of it by selling off the weiand and the old distributor (I'll keep the motor since it is the original engine for the car.)

But I'm wondering how much more this will be over a new intake, and a decent carb for the said 408W (which will be all forged with AFR heads, probably 205s.)

 

[mustang70]

I'm liking alot of what I am seeing. Tthe only concern for me: cost. Mind you, I might be able to offset some of it by selling off the weiand and the old distributor (I'll keep the motor since it is the original engine for the car.)

But I'm wondering how much more this will be over a new intake, and a decent carb for the said 408W (which will be all forged with AFR heads, probably 205s.)

I was going to suggest the Pro Flow as well. That's what I was looking at for my stroker set up. The fuel injection is going to be quite a few dollars more then the carb/intake. Mainly because you're going with a 351. Last I checked there were only a couple manifolds for the 351 and they weren't cheap.

 

[fastaggie]

Check out Mass Flo EFI as well. They have systems for all Ford small blocks.

System uses a Ford Computer, Edelbrock Victor Intake with Fuel Bosses, and a LS1 1000cfm throttle body. It is one of the cleanest aftermarket systems out there and doesn't really use any propriatary components.

One of the features I really like about it is you can use a standard air cleaner for a vintage look (assuming it will fit under your hood).

I'm currently running 93 Ford 302 EFI in my 66 GT350H Clone. Drivability is excellent. Once I had it running properly it has been bullet proof. I've had it for over 2 years with no problems whatsoever. I am currently looking at the above mass-floefi system because of future power upgrades and they can provide proper injectors and calibrations for pretty much anything you want to run. By the time I upgrade injectors, throttle body etc. I can put this system on and have the vintage look (which is the only thing I miss). As is it outperforms any of my past mustangs.

 

[347Fastback]

I am glad to see this topic because I will be going down the same path in my in my 65 fastback. I just got my 331 built for the car and I am firing it with a carb but I have a EFI setup lurking in the background... I ordered my edelbrock super victor intake from summit setup for EFI. I have a custom Ford harness and computer. I am using my 89 Saleen to help me wire and lay things out. My hold up now is getting a custom fuel cell with the fuel pump in the tank. I have decided this is the route I want to take with the tank so I have to be patient and save some funds... I have had my car for a little over a year and spent about $12,000 so far.... The car is at Vintage Mustang getting some global west suspension work and the install of torque boxes & shelby rollbar.... I decided to make my own version of overhaulin......