EFI Solutions or Custom Chip?
- Thread starter 98GTVortech
- Start date
KenB
Founding Member
If you notice, no one really got involved except to correct misinformation. You said
Which is absolutely wrong. Maybe that's true with an EFI chip (do they have a chip?) but that's not the case with a SCT or Diablo chip. There is no difference in what is changed between an SCT chip and SCT flash. The only difference is the delivery method. Keep the info accurate and you won't run into any problems. People may actually start listening to you if you give correct info.
SmithAtlanta said:
Which is absolutely wrong. Maybe that's true with an EFI chip (do they have a chip?) but that's not the case with a SCT or Diablo chip. There is no difference in what is changed between an SCT chip and SCT flash. The only difference is the delivery method. Keep the info accurate and you won't run into any problems. People may actually start listening to you if you give correct info.
Mustang92
SN's #1 1%er
SmithAtlanta said:
Let's compare apples to apples here. The thread that got deleted was an informational post about a dyno/tuning day and people started coming in taking shots at SCT like they are clueless. My comments in this thread are to clear up misinformation and get an answer to my questions. If this thread had been about an EFI tuning date I wouldn't have said a word.
At no time have I latched on and proclaimed any one tuner the god of tuning or greatest tuner out there. The only tuning done on my car is by me and I know where I sit on the totem pole. If someone asks what options are out there I'm more than happy to give my recommendation by on my experience with the software just like I have on these boards for the past 5 years now in regards to many other parts I've used. You won't see me making outlandish statements like "Jerry the god of tuning is the only one on earth that can tune a Mustang" or "Chris could tune a Ez-Go goftcart go to 10s so why choose anything else". I stick to the facts and let people make up their own minds and I think if more people did stick to the facts with statements like "Tim did an excellent job on my car" or "Jerry picked me up 20RWHP and I'm extremely happy" you wouldn't see threads like this get out of hand.
Just something to think about...
Bill
SmithAtlanta
Founding Member
KenB said:
I responded with what I thought was correct. I could be wrong but last year when I was thinking about getting tuned at a dyno day(before SCT existed but Jerry and Chris were flashing)at Team Ford In Atlanta, someone told me that. I wasn't told this by Tim@EFI or Tim@T&J. If what you say is correct, I apologize to the person that started this thread.
SmithAtlanta
Founding Member
Mustang92 said:
I've never said that Tim@T&J is the god of tuning either. I have seen many, many customers come out of his shop very satisfied, though, and I think that is what is more important to him than being the "God of Tuning". I agree that saying someone is the "God of tuning" is a little crazy. I think some of his customers get a little crazy because they love the work he's done on their cars and then they make some grandious comments. I can't spend 24hrs a day policing every board to make sure all his customers are in line. I think Tim@T&J would rather be known for his customer service" than the "God of Tuning".
Mustang92
SN's #1 1%er
SmithAtlanta said:
And I never accused you of saying that. You'll notice my first response in this thread was not quoting just you. It was a statement based on what was posted in this thread by others and a few dozen other times I've run across other similiar threads.
No arguement there.
Neither can I, I have numerous articles in the works as well as work on my car so I don't have nearly the time to read though most other boards on the web. I also don't expect you to personally police every thread and correct people but when I see certain things as other do I will point them out.
I'm sure he would. However when people make statements saying he is the god of tuning or the best tuner out there bar none with nothing more than their one tuning experience under the belt and no reasoning behind why they thing he's good it just looks like 8-10 guys kissing his butt.
Bill
SmithAtlanta
Founding Member
Mustang92 said:
They are kissing his butt. They are happy with their results. I know that what you want me to say is that the people making the "God" remarks have no expertise or understanding to make these statements but to be honest with you, I don't know all of their personal histories with past tuners. I have talked to many customers that have come from different performance shops in the Atlanta area to the T&J shop and have left much happier(including some mentioned above). I am done discussing the tuning topic because you are right, I am not an expert and I probably should have left out that chip / flash comment above. All I can talk about is what I see coming out of the T&J Performance shop. Satisfied customers.
Spitfire
Founding Member
Mustang92 said:
Please direct me to a post where someone says Tim is the "god of tuning, or "the best tuner in the industry".
I'm happy with my tune from T&J using EFI solutions. I made 400/389 with just his intercooled mongoose kit and a catted x pipe. I feel sorry for the thread starter, its too bad the SCT fans muddied your post. It just makes you guys look petty when you come on the boards whining. This is a public forum and people can post their own opinions, without consent or agreement from you.
98GTVortech said:
You could also save yourself a couple of hours worth of riding by going to JD's in Huntingdon Valley.
He no longer tunes with EFI for some reasons mentioned earlier. He does tune with the latest Diablo software which is written by Mike Wesley, formerly of Autologic fame.
I am not going to get into a pissing match who is better, JD's or Kauffmans. They both have excellent reputations, but if it was my money to spend, I would save all the extra miles it takes to get to Dillsburg and tune with JD's.
PhatDoggy
Founding Member
All ya gotta do is read...Spitfire said:
[QUOTE='96&'01Stang in post #27]
.........Tim is the best tuner you are going to find anywhere......[/QUOTE]
All opinions... just like sphincters, we all got 'em.2002BLGT in post #24 said:
RedGTvert said:
I have talked to that company and they gave me there whole speal about how thier tuning session is the best but the cost of them was rather high. He quoted me something like 700+ for tune and chip while the guys in dillsburg quoted 400. Now this is the reason i posted this thread to find out just how much that extra 300 would be worth to get a custom chip. With that extra 300 i can almost have enough for some LT's
. Thanks for the feedback
cobra killer
Founding Member
Mustang92 said:You must not be using very good software if you can't change the same parameters in the chip version as you can with the flash. The only difference in the two is where the tune resides.
I'd like to hear just how Tim was given this distinction. I mean there are people that have been in the business tuning modulars for years now but yet in less than a year he's the master.It's certainly not because of the volume of cars he's tuned, I've yet to see any of the 2004 winners from the FFW or NMRA sporting EFI decals. Granted he's made good power with his car but that doesn't mean he's a great tuner. I made great power for the limited mods I have and tuned it myself but that doesn't make me a great tuner. It just means I know what I'm doing. Just like Tim does. There is a lot more to tuning that just getting a peak number, driveability, idle, longevity are all important factors in being a good tuner. Not to mention putting it all together in one package.
Tim, this isn't a slam against you, we've had our debates and this is nothing more than that. You've put together some high powered 2V cars and I give you credit for that it's not easy, however the repeated posts by the same few people proclaiming you are the best in the industry with nothing to back it up is getting old.
Bill
Bill,I make good power and make sure the streetabilty is perfect.Im not happy until the guy who owns the car is happy.
I cant control peoples replies.Some of them posting have been tuned by other tuners and we got better street/power results.So I guess in thier mind I am better.Am I? who knows.Honestly I dont care.My main goal is to make sure I get the most power and best driveabilty for the customer.
I think the post you see are a direct reflection from the post they see from the same guys over and over again about Jerry..I myself get sick of seeing the pissing contest about EFI verse SCT..I've used and seen both setups..Im one of the few that have,so really I would be the best one to give an opinion on it .My opinion is they both accomplish the same thing..
Bottom line,pick your tuner .There are alot of great guys out there tuning cars.The best in the business is the one that takes care of the customer and makes sure he is happy.He will always be the "best" in that customers eyes and all else will be second..Im number one to my customers and a nobody to someone else..All that matters is that in the end the tuner you use backs up his work..
btw,I didnt take it as an attack..Hell,all I want to do is toonnnnnnnnnn..
Tim
Mustang92
SN's #1 1%er
Spitfire said:
Keith already pointed out the ones in this post. I'm sure I would pull up at least another half dozen if not more in various posts on this board and others.
How did we muddy his post? He asked a question about the differences and misinformation was being spread by a few people that was reason I spoke up initially regardless what software I use on my car. If I was using a screw driver and an abacus to tune my car I would have said the same thing. So if correcting that misinformation in the post to make sure the thread starter is truely aware of his options is petty and making me look like a whiner then yep I'm guilty. Personally I'd rather see 10 posts from people with true experience with different tuners/tuning software than 10 people kissing someones butt.
I don't know about you but if I asked about Flaming River rack and had 15 replies saying they are the best, they rule, etc... Then have one reply stating how the steering ratio was night and day compared to stock and effort was overall better than a factory manual rack, not to mention superior build quality and customer service. I would be sold on the that one comment and ignore the other 15.
Same thing applies to us all now doesn't it. People don't have to agree with me but when false statements start being made I will voice my opinion.
Bill
Mustang92
SN's #1 1%er
cobra killer said:
That's good to hear.
I understand that and I don't expect you to tell every customer to curb their enthusiasm. To me that makes you a good tuner not the best tuner in the industry. That would be like me saying 4cyl springs are the best drag front spring for a Mustang when really I've never tested by maybe 1 or 2 others.
Since the initial BS that went on with the SCT vs. EFI thing it's been nice. However it seems that soon as SCT is brought up the same few guys that have gone through your shop start bashing it and they've never even seen SCT. They simply go on hersay. If the post is about the two companies there are going to be opinions stated. What's getting old is the bashing where it doesn't belong such as the SCT thread that got deleted because of bashing. If an EFI thread in regards to a tuning day came up you wouldn't see anything from any of the SCT users bashing EFI unless someone went out of their way to bash SCT first. Like you said it's two different ways of accomplishing the same thing. I've seen a few different tuning softwares as well and keep my opinion mostly to myself since I've been labeled an "SCT" person because of my affliation with ModularDepot.
Bill
cobra killer
Founding Member
Agreed..Actually I dont think there is a "best" in the industry.There seem to be alot of good tuners out there..To be the best would mean absolutely no problem from any car that has been tuned..You and I both know that is a farse and will never happen.Every tuner eventually has something happen that makes the customer mad.So far I've been lucky but Im sure my luck will run out..
I've seen plenty of threads were EFI was attacked by the pro SCT group,along with plenty of threads with the EFI group jumping on the SCT threads..Again,I get sick of it and avoid them.The only reason I posted here was my name was brought up..
Both softwares work..Really your chosing the tuner not the software.I think it will always be a Chevy verse Ford thing and IMHO its sad..Alot of guys who use to enjoy each other online are now divided ..I know from first hand experience that 5-6 guys have nothing to do with me because of the EFI software..Sucks,but what do you do?Im happy with it and it does everything I want it to do ....
Anyways,hopefully the b.s. will die down someday...
Tim
I've seen plenty of threads were EFI was attacked by the pro SCT group,along with plenty of threads with the EFI group jumping on the SCT threads..Again,I get sick of it and avoid them.The only reason I posted here was my name was brought up..
Both softwares work..Really your chosing the tuner not the software.I think it will always be a Chevy verse Ford thing and IMHO its sad..Alot of guys who use to enjoy each other online are now divided ..I know from first hand experience that 5-6 guys have nothing to do with me because of the EFI software..Sucks,but what do you do?Im happy with it and it does everything I want it to do ....
Anyways,hopefully the b.s. will die down someday...
Tim
Spitfire
Founding Member
Mustang92 said:
You are still trying to sensationalize peoples comments to make them seem more absurd (IE "god of tuning").
Here is your reasonable response:
Here is where you muddy the post:
That is you stirring up ****. Incidentally, how does he make good power if he isn't a great tuner?
I thank you for the correction that info is always welcome; but your jab at Tim's customer's responses makes you seem like an elitist. Because they don't "quantify" to your specification, then by extension their responses are invalid? Defend yourself if you want, I could care less about your modular hierarchy battles. I'm nobody.
nickthegenius
Active Member
Here, let me stir things up. In my quest to find out about "Pro-M" tuning software, I got this response at Modular Depot about it. So for the EFI lovers, I present:
---------
I don't want to start a pissing match here but I can give you a little info about our software and our tuning expertise.
Paul Booth and I have been working on tuning software that has striking similiarities to the other systems out there. We have both worked very hard to come up with our priliminary Ford system. We have found that the program is growing beyond our expectations in that we now have thirty dealers using our tuning software. We have recently started to go back and add a "quick calibration" utility to our software that will allow you to enter your vehicle info and the software will automatically produce a tune that should get you very close to perfect.
EFI Solutions is using information and technology that was obtained from Pro-M. We paid this company to work with us to develop our own tuning system and they are now in litigation with Pro-M. Anyone using their software has been or will be informed about our actions against EFI Solutions.We would like to provide any of these people with a free copy of our software to prevent them from being "shut down"
We have found that almost all tuners have been "lying" to the computer to get a quick and dirty "tune". They do this because they are trying to mask or compensate for other problems on the car and they are just trying to make a living like every one else in this business.
We manufacture mass air meters as well as tune and we find that if we "tell" the computer the MAF transfer functions and other precise info about auxiliary input and output devices, that the cars run perfect all year long.
We calibrate, others "tune".
I guess I can end with this.... We have several dealers that were already in posession of other tuning systems, but they chose to purchase ours as well. I believe they have done this because we try very hard to provide them with the proper tools and information to make them successful in this complicated business.
This was copied in its entirety from http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22378
---------
I don't want to start a pissing match here but I can give you a little info about our software and our tuning expertise.
Paul Booth and I have been working on tuning software that has striking similiarities to the other systems out there. We have both worked very hard to come up with our priliminary Ford system. We have found that the program is growing beyond our expectations in that we now have thirty dealers using our tuning software. We have recently started to go back and add a "quick calibration" utility to our software that will allow you to enter your vehicle info and the software will automatically produce a tune that should get you very close to perfect.
EFI Solutions is using information and technology that was obtained from Pro-M. We paid this company to work with us to develop our own tuning system and they are now in litigation with Pro-M. Anyone using their software has been or will be informed about our actions against EFI Solutions.We would like to provide any of these people with a free copy of our software to prevent them from being "shut down"
We have found that almost all tuners have been "lying" to the computer to get a quick and dirty "tune". They do this because they are trying to mask or compensate for other problems on the car and they are just trying to make a living like every one else in this business.
We manufacture mass air meters as well as tune and we find that if we "tell" the computer the MAF transfer functions and other precise info about auxiliary input and output devices, that the cars run perfect all year long.
We calibrate, others "tune".
I guess I can end with this.... We have several dealers that were already in posession of other tuning systems, but they chose to purchase ours as well. I believe they have done this because we try very hard to provide them with the proper tools and information to make them successful in this complicated business.
This was copied in its entirety from http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22378
Mustang92
SN's #1 1%er
Spitfire said:
They are absurd. If you've read through the main boards over the past 6 months you would see this.
Sure it was because his statement was completely false. Fact is both softwares can modify the same parameters with the false or chip. That wasn't a shot directly at EFI software but any software that couldn't change the same parameter with a chip and flasher.
Sorry those are facts and if don't agree with them oh well no skin off my back.
Overall combination is what makes good power. Tuners eek out a bit more power and make it driveable. Tuners do not make 400RWHP cars into 600RWHP the entire combination does.
Invalid to the extent that saying Tim is the best tuner in the industry without even knowing who else is out there or having dealt with anything or anyone other than mail order chips and/or one time tuning session sometimes with broken or the wrong parts is what makes their responses less credible. Thank you I will defend myself when being pointed out as being an elitest, whiner, and mudding up threads. You obviously care enoughed to "try" and step in an call me out. What exactly did you have to add to this thread?
Bill
