ELECTRICAL GREMLIN! Help me!

Opal50 · Jul 13, 2007

My car randomly dies while driving. It happens very quickly and without warning at all different speeds and rpms. When it happens the rpms suddenly drop and the car stops firing. I replaced the distributor cap, rotor, wires, and coil. Everything was fine for a couple day, but it died again on the highway after work. After it dies, the car will start right back up after letting it sit for about 5-10 minutes. It's a 94 gt and I recently installed full length headers, offroad x-pipe, and underdrive pulleys. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but it gives you an idea of what has been done to the car recently.

I'm pretty sure it's electrical because of how fast the car dies and without any surging or anything before. The temp and charge also appear to be in good shape when it happens. Any suggestions?

bill302 · Jul 13, 2007

pip sensor.....time to get a reman distributor from autozone....or replace the sensor in the distributor which can be difficult most people just but the reman dist...but first pull the codes and post results...click on link for instruction on how to pull codes or call your local autozone and ask if they can pull codes for you they offer this free at most autozones.....http://www.muscularmustangs.com/test1.php

Opal50 · Jul 13, 2007

I drove to four different autopart places today after it died. None of them could test OBD I. I'll look in the phone book tmrw, otherwise I'll just test it myself. Anyway, I was trying to get the car to die again in order to get a better idea of what's going on. So far, it won't do it when I want it to, figures.

jrichker · Jul 14, 2007

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of a test lamp.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/pc-7208-90-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.

Opal50 · Jul 14, 2007

I cleared the codes and then read them this morning. The only one I got was a canister purge circuit failure, but I don't think that's the problem. However, the car hasn't died since I cleared the codes. I'm going to try to get it to die today and then read the codes again, but knowing with my luck it'll run like a champ all day. I checked the wiring all around the spout connector and everything and it all looks to be intact with just normal wear. I wiggled and twisted what I could, but there was no response from the car.

I'll post another reply if I can get the car to die again.

Mr Grim · Jul 14, 2007

When my PIP failed, my car would die at random times. I could get it to restart by clearing the codes, but it would eventually die again. Clearing the codes got me home.
I think the computer goes into a fail-safe mode after getting a certain number of fails from the PIP. Someone out there may be able to confirm this. Mr Richker?

HISSIN50 · Jul 14, 2007

The PIP is a primary sensor - without it, the car simply doesnt run. It's nothing that FMEM can help.

As Bill noted, the PIPs are a very common failure item on 94-95's (the heat from the slant-nose bakes them).

Additionally, a PIP will often not register a code. When a car craps out and won't restart, using something to cool the sensor down (electrical contact cleaner, etc) will often revive it much quicker than it usually takes to function again. That's a clue.

Additionally, a lack of spark and injector pulsing when it craps out can suggest a PIP issue (it can be a TFI issue, but that's very rare in comparison).

Random thoughts.

Good luck.

giddyup306 · Jul 14, 2007

HISSIN50 said:
The PIP is a primary sensor - without it, the car simply doesnt run. It's nothing that FMEM can help.

As Bill noted, the PIPs are a very common failure item on 94-95's (the heat from the slant-nose bakes them).

Additionally, a PIP will often not register a code. When a car craps out and won't restart, using something to cool the sensor down (electrical contact cleaner, etc) will often revive it much quicker than it usually takes to function again. That's a clue.

Additionally, a lack of spark and injector pulsing when it craps out can suggest a PIP issue (it can be a TFI issue, but that's very rare in comparison).

Random thoughts.

Good luck.

Don't listen to this guy. He doesn't know anything. lol

BTW when did you get your title?

corvetteguy · Jul 15, 2007

When the car dies and you are coasting to
a stop do you hear the fuel pump running?

When you try to restart the car do you hear the
fule pump running?

My 89 would do this intermittently and
found the fuel pump relay under
the seat and replaced it. That was it.

Opal50 · Jul 15, 2007

OK, here's an update:

The fuel pump is still functional when the car dies, I can hear it. I brought the ignition module to autozone and they ran a diagnostic test on it; everything was fine.

What is the PIP sensor actually responsible for? Where exactly is it?

HISSIN50 · Jul 15, 2007

The PIP is in the dizzy bowl. It relays cylinder displacement to the computer so the spark and injectors fire in time (kind of like a crank trigger on newer stuff).

The FP will run during a prime out (key turned off and back to run) or when the PIP tells the computer that the engine is turning over.

Did the parts store test your TFI module several times? Doing this would simulate the heat found under the hood after some drive time (as when you're on the freeway and it poops itself). A TFI's critical temp is ~257*F.

Opal50 · Jul 15, 2007

They tested it twice, but I don't think temp has much to do with it anyway. The car has died before after about only two minutes of being turned on.

HISSIN50 · Jul 15, 2007

If you don't think temp has anything to do with it, why is the cooldown period needed? It should start right back up.

Opal50 · Jul 16, 2007

Maybe you're right, the only reason I said that is because the car has died within a minute or two of being turned on, so i feel like extremely high temp isn't the cause. I think it might be a short that is connected during vibration because the problem occurs so randomly. Maybe whatever is shorted relaxes when the car sits for awhile. I don't know, that's my hypothesis.

Also, I drove a half hour to and from work today with no problems. That's with highway, back roads, and bumper to bumper traffic.

Opal50 · Jul 20, 2007

Update:

I got a new module and of course it didn't fix the problem. I've got it to die numerous times since then and when it does there's no spark. So, I think I have it narrowed down to the PIP sensor. Don't ask me why I didn't listen to you guys from the start. Anyway, if it isn't that I don't know what to do. I heard that's tricky to install. I haven't really looked at it; has anybody done it before? And do I have to go to Ford for the PIP?

408gt91 · Jul 21, 2007

MY CAR DID THE SAME THING IDE DRIVE IT,WARM IT UP,IT WOULD DIE DOING 90MPH. IDE LET IT COOL FOR 10 TO 15 MINS.START IT BACK UP DROVE HOME BOUGHT AN MSD DISTRIBUTOR,NEVER HAPPEND AGAIN.WHEN THAT DISTRIBUTOR GETS HOT YOUR CAR DIES.IVE SEEN IT HAPPEN OVER AND OVER,THIS HISSIN GUY KNOWS HIS ****.

Opal50 · Jul 21, 2007

Yeah, so your problem was the pip sensor. Which I think mine has to be (it's the only thing left in the ignition system) . I'm going to try replacing tmrw or monday unless somebody has other ideas. How hard is that to replace?

kravamagaguy · Jul 21, 2007

Here You go!

For what it is worth.... I just replaced mine. The easiest way is to just go to the auto store and get a reman. dist.- I got mine at Auto zone it was $59.99 with out the TFI sensor. I did buy a new TFI...and all I had to do was to put the contact grease on it.... and take my old bowl of the old dist. and transfer it to the new one. I think this is way easier then trying to replace just the PIP sensor. plus now u will have a lifetime warranty on the dist. Hope this helps, if you have any other questions feel free to PM me.

Good Luck

jrichker · Jul 21, 2007

The pip is the sensor is in the bottom of the distributor that triggers the TFI. You have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it. Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a reman unit for about $75 exchange

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