Engine Build Choices - What Would You Choose?

[JTB321]

Rule here is that we must make you spend twice your budget. This way any time anyone asks how much a project is going to cost, we can say "make a budget, then double it".

I figured that may happen so I started with no budget and bumped it up to $1000, might have to break into the wife's project funds as well!! Great advice, it is slowly coming together I just need t set a realistic BHP target. Any comments on this stroker kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/370870880276?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Cheers, John

 

[mikestang63]

Yep. Here comes the snowball. Once it gets started moving, the cost started jumping. When you thought yhoujust needed heads turns into heads, rockers, cam, injectors, MAF, tune, fuel pump, then your trans, suspension, etc.

My advice. If you only have a budget of $1000, you are better off saving up until you can afford to do it right once and the first time. The cost of a decent 331 or 347 is going to run anywhere from 3-7k depending on how much work you do yourself, and new vs. used parts. Other option is spend about $1500 and throw a used S trim on it.

 

[JTB321]

Yep. Here comes the snowball. Once it gets started moving, the cost started jumping. When you thought yhoujust needed heads turns into heads, rockers, cam, injectors, MAF, tune, fuel pump, then your trans, suspension, etc.

My advice. If you only have a budget of $1000, you are better off saving up until you can afford to do it right once and the first time. The cost of a decent 331 or 347 is going to run anywhere from 3-7k depending on how much work you do yourself, and new vs. used parts. Other option is spend about $1500 and throw a used S trim on it.

Thanks Mike!! Fortunately, most of the other stuff is covered as far as trans, suspension, brakes etc. What is an S trim? Is that Mustang related as I'm building for a FFR Cobra.

 

[90lxwhite]

Thanks Mike!! Fortunately, most of the other stuff is covered as far as trans, suspension, brakes etc. What is an S trim? Is that Mustang related as I'm building for a FFR Cobra.

S trim- supercharger. Did you get the link I sent regarding aluminum heads?

 

[RangerJoe]

The crank in that kit is the same crank as mine, except 3.25 stroke vs. 3.4 stroke. The same crank some refer to as Chinese Junk. If you are familiar with Woody from FordStroker, I have read multiple post on the Corral from him. He is not a fan of cast cranks at all, but, he has posted that the Scat 9000 is one of the best ones on the market.

Joe

 

[JTB321]

The crank in that kit is the same crank as mine, except 3.25 stroke vs. 3.4 stroke. The same crank some refer to as Chinese Junk. If you are familiar with Woody from FordStroker, I have read multiple post on the Corral from him. He is not a fan of cast cranks at all, but, he has posted that the Scat 9000 is one of the best ones on the market.

Joe

Thanks Joe, that helps in the decision making.

Cheers, John

 

[revhead347]

I figured that may happen so I started with no budget and bumped it up to $1000, might have to break into the wife's project funds as well!! Great advice, it is slowly coming together I just need t set a realistic BHP target. Any comments on this stroker kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/370870880276?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Cheers, John

Chinese crap. When you throw away a beer can, they it to China, then a 12 year old girl hits it with a hammer until it looks like a crankshaft, and then they sell you your beer can back.

Kurt

 

[flstang65]

And, on top of the budget, no one elver plans for all those "incedentals" along the way. Haha

 

[cleanLX]

Since you have never stated how the car will be used or what type of drive-ability you are looking to achieve or your preferred characteristics of power delivery... I don't know how anyone can offer proper advice.
For those that say a top end kit on a 302 vs 347 are going to make within a few hp of one another may be the case for "peak" numbers on select combos, but the 2 motors are going to deliver that power very differently and at different rpm, and if stretching it, have very different drive-ability.
Speaking just on your HP goal and limited budget, my advice would be to ditch the E cam for a custom cam and everything else you already have in your possession at this time will make 300-325rwhp. A 302/306 with P heads, decent cam/intake will give you a motor with nice drive-ability, good off idle TQ and build power to 5400-5800rpm which will allow the stock block and internals live a long and happy life. And in a 2200lb car, it is going to fly.
If you want big block punch, or 7500rpm capability, or both you are going to be spending some money.

 

[JTB321]

Since you have never stated how the car will be used or what type of drive-ability you are looking to achieve or your preferred characteristics of power delivery... I don't know how anyone can offer proper advice.
For those that say a top end kit on a 302 vs 347 are going to make within a few hp of one another may be the case for "peak" numbers on select combos, but the 2 motors are going to deliver that power very differently and at different rpm, and if stretching it, have very different drive-ability.
Speaking just on your HP goal and limited budget, my advice would be to ditch the E cam for a custom cam and everything else you already have in your possession at this time will make 300-325rwhp. A 302/306 with P heads, decent cam/intake will give you a motor with nice drive-ability, good off idle TQ and build power to 5400-5800rpm which will allow the stock block and internals live a long and happy life. And in a 2200lb car, it is going to fly.
If you want big block punch, or 7500rpm capability, or both you are going to be spending some money.

Thanks Mike, for clarification the car will be mainly used for fast road use, may be around a track but just day to day fun!!. After all the input I am almost decided now on a 306 build. Interesting that you mention changing the cam, first to really question the E cam, why so? Showing my ignorance what is a custom cam?
The machine work is almost done and the standard crank is being checked for straightness and cracks and if OK will be using that. I need to decide if I should use my standard rods or get new to go with my +030 pistons. By not going down the stroker path I can afford new heads and research seems to point to either AFR165 or TW170, any preference as it seems the TW170's are cheaper but may need special pistons?
I'll be using roller rockers either pedestal or stud. I'm almost there then the build fun begins!!!

Cheers, John

 

[revhead347]

One of the major advantages of the Twisted Wedge is that it allows you to run higher cam specs without going to a special piston. So you will be able to run a bigger cam, generally speaking, with the TW170 than the AFR 165 without going to a special piston. Both of those heads are definitely 302 heads. You will need bigger heads to take advantage of a stroker engine.

Kurt

 

[JTB321]

One of the major advantages of the Twisted Wedge is that it allows you to run higher cam specs without going to a special piston. So you will be able to run a bigger cam, generally speaking, with the TW170 than the AFR 165 without going to a special piston. Both of those heads are definitely 302 heads. You will need bigger heads to take advantage of a stroker engine.

Kurt

OK, done more research and this what I'm proposing -

Block +030
standard reground crank (fully balanced with damper/flywheel)
E303 cam with roller rockers, Proform (OK?) or Scorpion
Exp upper/lower intakes
30 Lb injectors
upgraded rods, these? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-25090/overview/make/ford
Speed Pro Hyper pistons, these? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h273cp30/relatedkitscombos/make/ford?prefilter=1
heads, AFR165's (60cc) or TW170's (61cc), will either work with the chosen pistons? TW170's are cheaper.....

Hopefully getting nearer to a compatible build?

Cheers, John

 

[revhead347]

I think you are off to a really good plan there. I really like those Speedpro pistons. Best bang for the buck out there. They should have plenty of valve relief, so that will no longer be an issue. I would skip on the rods and just re use the stock ones. They are honestly probably better quality. Certainly sufficient for an N/A build. I think you will be better off with the Trick Flow heads. Is this going to be carbed, or FI? Might want to look into a Trick Flow power package. It comes with a cam designed for the heads, and it's cheaper than buying top end parts individually.

Kurt

 

[A5literMan]

OK, done more research and this what I'm proposing -

Block +030
standard reground crank (fully balanced with damper/flywheel)
E303 cam with roller rockers, Proform (OK?) or Scorpion
Exp upper/lower intakes
30 Lb injectors
upgraded rods, these? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-25090/overview/make/ford
Speed Pro Hyper pistons, these? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h273cp30/relatedkitscombos/make/ford?prefilter=1
heads, AFR165's (60cc) or TW170's (61cc), will either work with the chosen pistons? TW170's are cheaper.....

Hopefully getting nearer to a compatible build?

Cheers, John

Should be a very healthy engine. I have heard bad things about pro form so I recommend the scorpion rr or better yet comp cams golds. The 306 you are proposing should make around 300 rwhp may be a little more. Should be very fun in that light car. Congrats

 

[JTB321]

Should be a very healthy engine. I have heard bad things about pro form so I recommend the scorpion rr or better yet comp cams golds. The 306 you are proposing should make around 300 rwhp may be a little more. Should be very fun in that light car. Congrats

I'll be running a Megasquirt MS3/MSX3 for ECU duties. I'll think again about rods. Hopefully not many more changes!!

Cheers, John

 

[revhead347]

Ok. Look into the Trick Flow power packages and see what you think.

Kurt

 

[RangerJoe]

Definetly no proform rockers. I have heard good things about scorpions as far as budget rockers go.

Joe

 

[revhead347]

Oh yeah, definitely get the Scorpions if you buy individually. Proforms are cheap Chinese knock offs.

Kurt

 

[JTB321]

One more question, with 8cc flat top pistons which TFS 170's should I go for, there seems to be 4 part number options, Looking at a comparison, these seem to be the differences between them -

TFS-51410002-M61 61cc chamber volume, 7 degree lock style, 0.540" valve lift, single valve spring, 1.47" spring OD.
TFS-51410004-M61 61cc chamber volume, 10 degree lock style, 0.600" valve lift, double valve spring, 1.46" spring OD.

TFS-51410002-M58 58cc chamber volume, 7 degree lock style, 0.540" valve lift, single valve spring, 1.47" spring OD.
TFS-51410004-M58 58cc chamber volume, 10 degree lock style, 0.600" valve lift, double valve spring, 1.46" spring OD.

My cam is an E303, which heads to work with cam and pistons for pump gas?

Cheers, John

 

[A5literMan]

One more question, with 8cc flat top pistons which TFS 170's should I go for, there seems to be 4 part number options, Looking at a comparison, these seem to be the differences between them -

TFS-51410002-M61 61cc chamber volume, 7 degree lock style, 0.540" valve lift, single valve spring, 1.47" spring OD.
TFS-51410004-M61 61cc chamber volume, 10 degree lock style, 0.600" valve lift, double valve spring, 1.46" spring OD.

TFS-51410002-M58 58cc chamber volume, 7 degree lock style, 0.540" valve lift, single valve spring, 1.47" spring OD.
TFS-51410004-M58 58cc chamber volume, 10 degree lock style, 0.600" valve lift, double valve spring, 1.46" spring OD.

My cam is an E303, which heads to work with cam and pistons for pump gas?

Cheers, John

You can run any of them with the e cam. I'd probably order the ones with 58cc for a little more compression. IMO I'd still run a different cam. #1 choice is a custom grind by Ed Curtis at FTI or a good OTS from comp cams or even the tfs grinds. A good custom can give you more power and drivability. I'm running an e cam now and wish I had did it differently myself.