Build Thread Enola- Finishing touches

a91what · Sep 21, 2018

Pictures.

Mains on 2-3 are pretty bad, the rods survived well given the circumstances. I am having the crank turned next week.

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 21, 2018

How does the cam look? Sorry to hear about your bad luck bro, I hope things go smoothly and quickly with reassembly.

hoopty5.0 · Sep 21, 2018

This is what I think of when I hear bearing failure.

a91what · Sep 21, 2018

luckily i caught it early on, called the speed shop and they say that the 2-3 are the most common fail point when you make a reasonable amount of power. He asked what i torqued the Main caps at, I said 65ftlbs..... He told me to check my torque wrench and make sure it is not clicking early... so i did a small test and found it is about 15ftlbs off when compared to my 3/8 wrench.! That means my 65 was 50... thats not enough and the caps may have walked.

Note to self : dont buy cheap torque wrenches

jrichker · Sep 21, 2018

You need 4 things to check the accuracy of a torque wrench.
1.) A vise to clamp the square drive end of the torque wrench so that it is stable and isn't moving all over the place.
2.) A suitable weight that is within 2% of the weight marked on it.
3.) A ruler or tape measure.
4.) A coat hanger or wire strong enough to hold the weight.

Mount the square drive of the torque wrench in the vise and tighten it down securely. Measure from the center point of the square drive to the line in the middle of the torque wrench handle or handle pivot. Multiply the measured distance by the known value of the weight.

Example:
14 inches x 50 lbs = 700 inch pounds.
Divide by 12 to get foot pounds: 700/12 = 58.33 foot lbs.

It works out best if you use multiple weights so that you can check for accuracy throughout the entire range of the torque wrench.

If the torque wrench has a setting dial, set it to the value you just calculated. Attach the wire or coat hanger that has the weight to the pivot point, or line on the handle. Listen for the click or beep, or watch for the flash or the indication on the dial. It should match the calculated value within 2%
.
That’s the simple part. Unfortunately I have no idea how to adjust anything but the bending beam torque wrenches, so you are on your own from this point on.

CarMichael Angelo · Sep 21, 2018

a91what said:
luckily i caught it early on, called the speed shop and they say that the 2-3 are the most common fail point when you make a reasonable amount of power. He asked what i torqued the Main caps at, I said 65ftlbs..... He told me to check my torque wrench and make sure it is not clicking early... so i did a small test and found it is about 15ftlbs off when compared to my 3/8 wrench.! That means my 65 was 50... thats not enough and the caps may have walked.

Note to self : dont buy cheap torque wrenches

I'm in Canada, so I gotta talk via my phone (which I freaking hate) But...
Are you sure that is an overfill that caused that? There looks to be a lot of heat in those carnage pics....if it were me, I'd be calling my ass off talking to the "experts" out there to see what all if the things could've happened to such a new engine to fail that way

It's how I learned about head lift on my 460 back in my ignorant days.

Back in my ignorant days,..( 1995).. I decided to dump 350 HP of N2o on 9.5cr with 36degrees of timing using pump premium.

I wondered why my freeze plugs were blowing out of the block.

I learned after talking with several experts, ( the last being Alan Moody, of original Holman/Moody fame, )that too little octane, too much nitrous, and too much timing don't like each other)

I had two stages of nitrous stacked on a 1980 Mustang with that 460/c4 and had just brought it out after having had the Cam failure mentioned earlier. I would leave on a 175 shot, and grab the second shot just as soon as I pulled second.
Just as soon as I did that, it would blow a freeze plug.
I should have known something was wrong when winging the engine would suck the lower radiator hose closed
But I ignored it.
I should've known something was wrong when it blew the plug out the first time it did it.
But I went to AZ, and bought an expandable one that night at the track.
And ignored that too.

It took wrecking the car to start to question why....
( 460 head bolts are torqued to 140ft lbs,....it takes a hell of a lot of detonation to lift those heads)
After hauling the destroyed car back home, I started trying to figure out what happened...
I just happened to call moody, and he schooled me,....cause everybody else I spoke to told me that if a head lifts, a head gasket goes right along with it.

Detonation happened..... bad detonation.
And a head gasket stays intact if compression gasses find a way out ( into the water jacket) instead.

The message here is to thoroughly check into why this engine failed...especially when you're saying there was only a little over 6 qts of oil in the drain pan.

RangerJoe · Sep 21, 2018

CarMichael Angelo said:
I'm in Canada, so I gotta talk via my phone (which I freaking hate) But...
Are you sure that is an overfill that caused that? There looks to be a lot of heat in those carnage pics....if it were me, I'd be calling my ass off talking to the "experts" out there to see what all if the things could've happened to such a new engine to fail that way

It's how I learned about head lift on my 460 back in my ignorant days.

Back in my ignorant days,..( 1995).. I decided to dump 350 HP of N2o on 9.5cr with 36degrees of timing using pump premium.

I wondered why my freeze plugs were blowing out of the block.

I learned after talking with several experts, ( the last being Alan Moody, of original Holman/Moody fame, )that too little octane, too much nitrous, and too much timing don't like each other)

I had two stages of nitrous stacked on a 1980 Mustang with that 460/c4 and had just brought it out after having had the Cam failure mentioned earlier. I would leave on a 175 shot, and grab the second shot just as soon as I pulled second.
Just as soon as I did that, it would blow a freeze plug.
I should have known something was wrong when winging the engine would suck the lower radiator hose closed
But I ignored it.
I should've known something was wrong when it blew the plug out the first time it did it.
But I went to AZ, and bought an expandable one that night at the track.
And ignored that too.

It took wrecking the car to start to question why....
( 460 head bolts are torqued to 140ft lbs,....it takes a hell of a lot of detonation to lift those heads)
After hauling the destroyed car back home, I started trying to figure out what happened...
I just happened to call moody, and he schooled me,....cause everybody else I spoke to told me that if a head lifts, a head gasket goes right along with it.

Detonation happened..... bad detonation.
And a head gasket stays intact if compression gasses find a way out ( into the water jacket) instead.

The message here is to thoroughly check into why this engine failed...especially when you're saying there was only a little over 6 qts of oil in the drain pan.

Would that be Al Moody from the Atlanta area?

Joe

90sickfox · Sep 21, 2018

Those bearings look a little scuffed up. Really glad you caught it. That torque wrench may have been the cause.

The work you've put into that car is really amazing. Can't wait to see it back up and running. Thanks for your help with mine, but I feel kinda bad knowing what you're going through with yours.

I've got a bunch of respect for you, sir.

a91what · Sep 21, 2018

Thanks Scott, I will be up and running again in no time.

CarMichael Angelo · Sep 21, 2018

RangerJoe said:
Would that be Al Moody from the Atlanta area?

Joe

yes it would. bought a fairmont from him to put thatv460 in as well.

droopie85gt · Sep 21, 2018

CarMichael Angelo said:
It took wrecking the car to start to question why....

@CarMichael Angelo Did you wreck it when you drove thru the coolant coming out where the freeze plug used to be?

CarMichael Angelo · Sep 22, 2018

droopie85gt said:
@CarMichael Angelo Did you wreck it when you drove thru the coolant coming out where the freeze plug used to be?

Yes.
The rear tire hit the puddle and the car instantly veered left and hit a wall.

Lassiter mountain dragway is in the bottom of a trench.

droopie85gt · Sep 22, 2018

CarMichael Angelo said:
Yes.
The rear tire hit the puddle and the car instantly veered left and hit a wall.

Lassiter mountain dragway is in the bottom of a trench.

Sounds like Blue Mountain, MS. It was only about 550 ft long, which was good, because you only had about 200ft to shut down on pavement, then about 200 feet a chest high weeds, then a forest. I had both feet on the brakes everytime we ran there and usually ran out into the grass...damn that was sketchy.

@a91what I know you had several gallons of oil, but those bearings look suspiciously oil starved. Maybe it was aeration. I would think if you had left them loose and had cap walk, you would have spun at least one of them.

General karthief · Sep 22, 2018

and low oil pressure if they were loose?

RangerJoe · Sep 22, 2018

CarMichael Angelo said:
yes it would. bought a fairmont from him to put thatv460 in as well.

I have been to his shop behind his house before, real nice guy. He dyno tuned a motor for my father n law about 10-12 years ago. First time I ever saw a 1000+ hp naturally aspirated motor close up (not my father n laws).

Joe

90sickfox · Sep 25, 2018

Hey Steve... how's progress going ?

a91what · Sep 25, 2018

Dropped the crank off at the machine shop on Saturday, I will find out what needs to be done today to make it right. They are trying to figure out why the bearings went, does not look like cap walk, oil starvation is what they are leaning tward at the moment.

90sickfox · Sep 25, 2018

So...I goes it's back to the oil change being at fault. Smh

In my experience, usually, a car will smoke like a frieght train if the oil is over full. Hope you get it back together soon.

Im interested in seeing the outcome of this.

I get nervous anytime someone touches any of my vehicles.

Well my lunch break is over... back to tearing down this GL450. Oh the joys of being a mechanic....

a91what · Oct 1, 2018

OK so the final verdict was that the 2-3 mains were egg shaped.... how they missed that the first time is beyond me... anyway I furnished a fresh crank and they waved any labor cost.
Kyle came up again to help put the engine back together, thanks again Kyle!!!
here are some pictures from Saturday.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pPW9f5NkvHB7Zp978

90sickfox · Oct 1, 2018

That little clip of the supercharger spinning hypnotized me for a few minutes.

Glad it's getting back together. Atleast they did the machine work for free. Kinda sucks you had to go through all that work.

Always great to have good people that'll come past and help out.

One day im going to get down there so I can see that build in person.

Build Thread Enola- Finishing touches

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