Estimate on cost of changing to 5 speed

[65fastbackresto]

I`m taking my car to a guy next week to get an estimate on changing my C-4 trans to a 5 speed. Anyone know what kinda cost I`ll be looking at for parts and labor?

I`ll need clutch pedal, transmision, and new driveshaft too I think.

And what kind of questions do I need to ask him to keep something stupid from happening?

 

[SadbutTrue]

I`m taking my car to a guy next week to get an estimate on changing my C-4 trans to a 5 speed. Anyone know what kinda cost I`ll be looking at for parts and labor?

I`ll need clutch pedal, transmision, and new driveshaft too I think.

And what kind of questions do I need to ask him to keep something stupid from happening?

My total cost was between $2000 and $2500. It can be done cheaper though.

My T5 (with cable, which I used), was $550. Probably overpaid by about $50-100, but not a terrible deal.

I went with fairly high end components (CF Dual Friction clutch - $350, Fidanza alum flywheel - $300 on ebay IIRC, Pro 5.0 shifter - $200... adds up fast). Not quite as nice but effective parts (a Ford HD/Cobra clutch $175, billet steel flywheel - $100?, use stock shifter) and you could save $500 right there.

In addition to the trans, you'll need: swap crossmember, clutch pedal, clutch mechanism (either clutch or hydraulic), t5 swap yoke, t5 trans mount, shifter assembly, shifter handle, 3 quarts ATF.

Another member of the board was able to do the whole swap for $750, albeit reusing lots of stock 5.0 components and not using any particularly trick components. Still, his combo probably works pretty close to as well as mine. You could do it similarly if you find a good deal on a T5 + bellhousing and re-use stock shifter, clutch cable, and either use stock or mild clutch/flywheel combos.

Make sure you get a 90-93 T5. I got an 89 and afterwards learned that the gears in the 90-93 have extra nickel and are stronger (substantially stronger). Don't use 94 or 95 T5s unless you have to, you have to compensate for their longer input shafts. Also remember to get the steel bearing retainer, supposed to be the single biggest/easiest thing you can do to improve a T5's strength.

You may need to shorten the driveshaft. I haven't had to but its close. I probably should, but it hasn't been much of an issue.

One tiny piece of good news... your speedo mechanism and starter are the same as the C4

 

[coolblue65]

Your costs can vary dramatically depending on who you go about getting your parts for the swap, new vs used, high end clutch vs low end clutch, as well as what you elect to do in terms of combination of parts, early or late bell housing, spacer plate, shortened input shaft.

So here is my crack at an estimate for you based on my original setup when I first converted to a 5-speed, but I started off with a 3-speed manual so you will have to add a bit for the parts I already had.

Trans: used Tremec 3550 $800
Shifter: new Pro 5.0 $150
clutch: new Mcleod clutch set $300.00
Flywheel: resurfaced original $10 (new ones range from $50 -$300)
Crossmember: $150
shortened input shaft: $150
Bell housing: original 65 - Free (you can probably pick one up for around $75)
Linkage: Original 65 mechancial set-up Free(your cost will vary greatly here depending on if you choose mechanical, cable, or hydrualic)
Driveshaft: Original 65 - Free - prices range here too
Pedals: I have seen these prices range all over the place from $75 to a couple hundred.


I have got $1600 right there once you start adding in the other parts its easily over $2,000- but it all depends on what level of parts you want to buy.

 

[wild70stang]

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/classic_swaps.htm

good breakdown on a swap. If I were you just purchase some simple stuff like the scatter shield, housing, and drive shaft from another vehicle. I am not sure, but wouldn't the swap require another hole for the 3rd pedal?

 

[SadbutTrue]

I`m taking my car to a guy next week to get an estimate on changing my C-4 trans to a 5 speed. Anyone know what kinda cost I`ll be looking at for parts and labor?

I`ll need clutch pedal, transmision, and new driveshaft too I think.

And what kind of questions do I need to ask him to keep something stupid from happening?

As far as labor, dunno. Its a surprisingly easy project to do, with probably more literature on the net about it than any other classic mustang major 'restomod' project other than engine components swaps.

Like I said in the last post. $500 is fair for a good condition (93+) T5 and bell. Clutch pedals are pricey unless you get it used on ebay, i think $130 at NPD? Driveshaft you might be able to keep as is, so don't automatically get a new one/shorten yours. A pro could probably do the swap in a day if he knows classic mustangs, so $1500 total doesn't sound unreasonable, obviously depending on clutch/flywheel/shifter/other major parts which you didn't say you'd need.

 

[SadbutTrue]

I`m taking my car to a guy next week to get an estimate on changing my C-4 trans to a 5 speed. Anyone know what kinda cost I`ll be looking at for parts and labor?

I`ll need clutch pedal, transmision, and new driveshaft too I think.

And what kind of questions do I need to ask him to keep something stupid from happening?

I also hadn't considered talking Tremecs (TKOs and 3550s), as Coolblue mentioned. In most regards, the prices are similar with the Tremecs being a little more expensive than T-5s.

You also have to deal with the tight trans tunnel on 65-66s, which depending on who you talk to can be a minor hassle or a major headache. It would certainly add a lot of labor if someone else is doing it. Some people say you don't need to modify 65/66 tunnels for Tremecs, some say you can just bang at it with a hammer, others say actual cutting and fabbing is necessary.

I couldn't get a firm answer on how much work it'd be so I went the easy route with a T5. Tremecs can be a good idea if you're putting out really big power, but built T5s (T-5zs for up to 400 hp, GForce or Astro T5s for bigger apps) aren't significantly more expensive and can handle the job. Only reason you'd need a Tremec is if you have a 351w stroker or some heavily boosted/crazy race application, IMO.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I can handle up to $3000 pretty good.

Summit shows the the T-5 for about $1900, not that I`m going new on that part of the swap.

I`ve got 300 to 350 hp I`m sure and 3.55 gears. I need something thats gonna hold up under a little gear slamming. I love chirping 2nd gear, 3rd is even more fun then that.

Thats a good article from modern driveline, thanks for that one, I wasn`t sure what I was getting into, but it looks fairly straight forward really.

 

[SadbutTrue]

Summit shows the the T-5 for about $1900, not that I`m going new on that part of the swap.

I`ve got 300 to 350 hp I`m sure and 3.55 gears. I need something thats gonna hold up under a little gear slamming. I love chirping 2nd gear, 3rd is even more fun then that.

Thats a good article from modern driveline, thanks for that one, I wasn`t sure what I was getting into, but it looks fairly straight forward really.

You sure? I priced a summit T-5z and they shipped for just under $1500. Almost got it but decided a used T5 was all I needed. Wished I'd had gone with T-5z, peace of mind is awesome... and yes, the T-5z should be fine for 300-350 hp/tq. As a matter of fact, it might be slightly overkill... a used 90-93 T5 in good shape would probably do fine as well. Most on here say I should be hard-pressed (assuming I don't abuse it too often or use slicks/3k launches etc) to break my T5 with roughly 400 hp (+/- 20) from a 351w, and mines an 89.

But yeah, for 3k you could do the T-5z with all the crap I did (Centerforce Clutch, Fidanza Flywheel, Pro 5.0... all of which are sweet), if you did it yourself. With labor it might push 4k.

It really isn't that hard. My dad was freaking out about setting up the clutch cable, literally took all of an afternoon.

 

[jcode68]

If you have headers, you will need to consider interference with the clutch cable type mechanism. Many people need to go to using shorty headers if using the cable actuated clutch. The alternative (an better option IMHO) is to use a hydraulic clutch. They cost a little more up front (about $400), but leave plenty of room for any header you wish and the clutch pedal feel is like a modern car. Very nice way to go. If you are going to pay someone else to do the swap, you should try to seek out someone who is familiar with classic Mustangs and might have even done this upgrade before. Although any good mechanic should be able to accomplish it in a day.

 

[70vert]

Don't forget the cost of gas! I remember getting about 12-14mpg on the car back in high school with a 302-2v and a C-4. In a recent long distance drive that I plotted out on Google Maps (not using the speedo) I got close to 25, but I was babying it. The point is - don't underestimate the gas savings you can get with a 5-speed with an OD and a 2.79 rear. :-D

 

[BarnStang]

Bob Hanlon has helped me a bunch. THey have T-5z's for $1395
http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/

D & D is also a good resource got T-5 & TKO stuff.
http://www.ddperformance.com/

One of those sites had new T-5's for $999 but they must be all gone cause I don't see the ad anymore.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I got a stupid question

The T-5 appears to be the one that I would not have to modify the transmission tunnel if I go that way right?

The t-5z as yall are calling it, is that the bigger heavier TKO or Tremec, maybe just slang for it?

 

[BarnStang]

In a 65? On the 65-66 T-5 conversion I cut the center out of the floor support brace that runs between the frame rails. About 6-8 inches wide. I leave the sides that are spot welded to the tunnel. I then weld a flat plate between the strips left spot welded to the tunnel. Effectivly "raising" the roof on the brace in the center. And it's not dead center. I offset it to the passenger side. THen, it sometimes needs a few good whacks with the BFH to clearence the corners, but only in the spots the trans touches. Same for the 67-68. I have always been able to get 3 degrees angle on the tailshaft. WIth the recipricle 3 degrees on the rear. Can you not clearence the tunnel? Yea. And there starts the debate. Can you run the car with unequal driveline angles? Yea. Should you? No. But that is my opinion. Can you whale on the tunnel with a really big BFH and acheive the same results? Yea. Depends on what you want to do. I can tell you this-I have put a TKO 600 in a 65 Coupe. I opened the tunnel like you would gut a fish. Raised it 3 inches, welded it shut. Zero vibration in that car at 110 Mph on the interstate. I've corrected 2 T-5 conversions where the complaint was vibration, by raising the trans to correct the driveline angle. However, there are cars out there with no mods and no vibrations (with a T-5 conv). So, it comes down to your decision. Read. Search this forum. THis topic will cure insomnia...and decide for yourself.

I'll let some one else give you a definitive answer about the T-5Z. It was (I think) not a factory trans, but a Ford Motorsport trans you could order over the counter. Or used as a warenty replacement... see the "g" coded entry in the chart.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/09/t5swap/index2.shtml


Just to clarify the Coupe-that was zero vibration from zero through 110MPH. No vibration at any speed...

 

[coolblue65]

The T-5 appears to be the one that I would not have to modify the transmission tunnel if I go that way right?

The t-5z as yall are calling it, is that the bigger heavier TKO or Tremec, maybe just slang for it?

There is the basic T-5, the T-5Z and the G-Force T-5, then there is the Tremec 3550, and heavy duty Tremec TKO.

The two Tremec's do have a notably larger case and are known to take just about anything you through at them.

The trans tunnel can be issue for some, but I took 2BAV8 advice and I put in the Tremec 3550 with out performing any mods to make it fit its tight for sure but it fits- the angle may be off (never checked it), but I have no vibration problems.

There are seriously dozens (if not hundreds!) of ways to configure the diferent options to do this swap. Start thinking whats important to you and what your long term plans are. Do you plan on major power upgrades in the future? Do you want long tube headers? Are you going to beat on the car often and hard?

as a side note IMO if you have basic clutch knowledge this is a fairly easy swap to perform yourself

 

[65fastbackresto]

I installed a clutch in high school

Like 25 years ago. But I have long tube headers and I kinda like them. It just seems like it takes me about 10 times the amount of time to do anything to this car that everyone says it should, and I dont want it down for months doing a tranny change.

I have severe time contraints that keep me from doing what I`d like too most of the time.

 

[mtaqua]

I am going with an A-5 from Astroperformance.com - Your Manual Drivetrain Specialist. Plan on making 550ish hp/ftlbs. It is going in a 66 coupe. I was going to go with a TKO600. I've done many searches. What I found was no one complained about the A-5 or astro performance. There were probably an equal number on complaints of TKOs as there were G-force T-5s (problems or breaking). The A-5 is suppose to handle about what the TKO600 does, it is lighter, uses less HP, shifts easy like a T-5, shifts easily upto 7000RPMs, and will fit easier in a 65-66. Hopefully I don't regret the A-5.

 

[57fairlane]

If you want an idea of the bottom of the barrel prices . . .

stock flywheel - $60 ($40 of that was resurfacing), purchased locally
ford racing clutch cable and quadrant kit - $50, off ebay

definitely search ebay and local shops if you are trying to do it on the cheap.
I have maybe $600-700 in my whole t5 setup but it was because I work at a shop (some freebies) and because I spent time to surf around and find deals.

 

[SadbutTrue]

Like 25 years ago. But I have long tube headers and I kinda like them. It just seems like it takes me about 10 times the amount of time to do anything to this car that everyone says it should, and I dont want it down for months doing a tranny change.

I have severe time contraints that keep me from doing what I`d like too most of the time.

I have longtubes as well, not to mention a 351w in a 66. The cable clutch can still work, just have to be creative (we're gonna route it inside the shock tower, re-doing it now as I'm putting the motor in).

I wouldn't expect to be able to do the swap in a day or two if you're not familiar with the stuff. That said, my dad and I, who had never done anything like this before, completed the swap in a weekend and a couple of evenings during the next week (from putting the car up on jacks with the C4 to leaving the driveway and stalling for the first time in the T5, heh).

mta - keep us updated on the A-5. They look pretty nice..

 

[tweet66]

I'm about $950 onto my swap. 0 mile takeout 96 V6 T5 (same torque rating as earlier V8's)-$300 with bell, fabbed my own crossmember-$10, hyd. clutch setup, hoses and fabbed brackets -$140, tailshaft housing mods to use speedo cable-$50, new King Cobra clutch-$100, B&M shifter used-$75, Billet flywheel-$100, Aerostar aluminum driveshaft & shortening $125, assorted crap I forgot-$50...
Now if you calculate the while I'm at it costs, like new lower arm with spherical bearings, roller perches, adjustable strut rods, & bumpsteer kit that I fabbed from "borrowed" ideas on the web (thanks Opentracker, Dazecars, Street or Track) well then it's more like $1500 I hope my wife doesn't read this....

 

[nugget68]

I'm about $950 onto my swap. 0 mile takeout 96 V6 T5 (same torque rating as earlier V8's)-$300 with bell, fabbed my own crossmember-$10, hyd. clutch setup, hoses and fabbed brackets -$140, tailshaft housing mods to use speedo cable-$50, new King Cobra clutch-$100, B&M shifter used-$75, Billet flywheel-$100, Aerostar aluminum driveshaft & shortening $125, assorted crap I forgot-$50...
Now if you calculate the while I'm at it costs, like new lower arm with spherical bearings, roller perches, adjustable strut rods, & bumpsteer kit that I fabbed from "borrowed" ideas on the web (thanks Opentracker, Dazecars, Street or Track) well then it's more like $1500 I hope my wife doesn't read this....

i've heard that the later t5's with their bellhousings actually fit better because it moves the shifter closer to you and eliminates you havind to stretch to go to 1st, 3rd and 5th gears....have you found this to be true?