Everyone thats honed cylinders/spectated IN HERE NOW! PICS!

Hey so a few days ago my buddy and I honed my cylinders, or so we thought. Today we were gonna install my rotating assembly with one of my 4.6 freinds was like you need to hone those more. So he grabbed my drill, brakes part cleaner and WD-40 and honed away. Now my question is, WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING. Attached are a few pics of our job, and his. His looks clean and cool, ours looks kinda rough and not clean, but I didnt think it was supposed to look clean. What is the proper way to do this with out taking to much off? Heres pics,

His:
cyl_hone_001.jpg

cyl_hone_003.jpg


Ours:
cyl_hone_002.jpg

cyl_hone_004.jpg


And what the hell are those black spots? Looks like its from the oil ring thingy, you cant feel them.

cyl_hone_005.jpg
 
I would not qualify as an expert in this area, but here are my thoughts.


It looks like your crosshatch is better than his. Maybe you were feeding in and out of the bore faster. His look to have been run in and out at a very slow feed rate. I have heard that for most rings a 30* crosshatch is ideal.

However, it looks as if you put too much tension on the grinder, or did not use enough lube. The job you did appears more like a series of gouges, all of wihich look too deep.

These are just my guesses, which are based on pictures. I am sure someone more qualified will chime in with better details.

I will send you "mad props, yo" for having the guts to do it yourself. You took the chance and learned with the experience.:nice:
jason
 
I've done a few honong jobs over the years and the article below basically describe what I followed. If you google search on honing cylinger walls you will find tons of advice and methods. Like everything only you can decide what is good enough. It is probably more important to make sure your ring gap is correct than getting a perfect crosshatch hone.

Pulled the following from this web site http://www.type2.com/library/engineg/pcdec.htm

Honing

Actually, glaze breaking. Real hones are rigid and used as the final step after a rebore to bring the bore to a precise size and finish.

Support the cylinder somehow. Best would be fastening into the case before you clean the case, but you'll NEED to clean the case then. It's my belief that you don't want to make the cylinders very rough, but you need some roughness to cause the rings to wear in. So, use a glaze breaker hone of 180-320 grit, slather the walls with honing oil (mix solvent or kerosene and motor oilso it's pretty runny) fasten the glaze breaker into the slowest drill you can find and move the hone the hone top to bottom in the cylinder while running the drill. Remember you're not trying to take out a lot of metal, just giving it a new finish.

The ideal that all the books called for was a 30 degree crosshatch. 25 degrees or 50 degrees, I don't think the rings know the difference, but try for some crosshatch. Maybe if your drill isn't very slow you might try triggering it as you move the hone in and out--30 to 60 seconds in each hole is enough. To keep the stones wet, I put the oil in an oil can (pump oiler) and slather it continuously.

Wait, you're not done! Now you've got to get that cast iron grit out of the pores of the cylinder walls. Chevy books said soap and hot water were the answer and it's sure easier to put VW cylinders in the kitchen sink than Chevys, but I think that clean oil-wetted rags used to wipe them down will work too. When they don't come out grey, they're clean.
 
30 degree hatch works well for most rings, I assume this was a flat stone hone? It is all a matter of how fast and slow you move the hone in and out.

His appear to be much smoother or a finer RA finish then yours but pic's over the computer are hard to judge. Personally I like his better from the pics...yours looks like it would knock the coating right off the ring. Make sure you use some reg straight 30wt oil on the walls before installing the pistons.

HOT SOAPY WATER (DISH WASHING LIQUID) works well, I use a bore brush as well to ensure they are clean.
 
dgollem said:
Chevy books said soap and hot water were the answer and it's sure easier to put VW cylinders in the kitchen sink than Chevys,..

Not to change the subject but ummm... am I the only person that's ever been guilty of putting a set of pistons into the dishwasher after a liberal coating of easy-off? If not... Were your wives as unimpressed as mine?

P.S. Hey Rick.. if you've got the time, gimme a call on the Tele.
 
I just built my motor about a month ago with Total Seal rings.

They recommend cleaning the bore with WD-40. I used the spray oil to rinse the bores, then white paper towel to wipe and final clean. I would also alternate between wiping with brake parts cleaner and wiping with wd-40. The oil seems to help pull the last bits of debris out of the crosshatches, then you can wipe it away with the solvent. Using this process it took well over an hour to get the bores clean, and that is after getting it back from a shop.
 
Daggar said:
Not to change the subject but ummm... am I the only person that's ever been guilty of putting a set of pistons into the dishwasher after a liberal coating of easy-off? If not... Were your wives as unimpressed as mine?

P.S. Hey Rick.. if you've got the time, gimme a call on the Tele.

Andy shoot me a call tonight I'll be around working in the shop.

Easy Off will reak havoc on alum if it sits to long :shrug: My wife loves when I heat up the Rollmaster lower timing gears in the oven :D