Exorcising a '78

[IICrew]

Almost back together. One ball joint has a torn boot and the other has a damaged castle nut. No one locally has them in stock so she is still in the OR. Had to have my son come over and hang off the bumper to get the shock compressed enough to start the top nut. Coil overs are all the way down so I thought it would be easier than stock springs but was about the same pain. I didn't have the engine weight for the stock springs so these are definitely a firmer spring.

Added brake fluid. Cannot find a leak. The rear reservoir was bone dry. I pumped them for a few minutes and no fluid on the ground. I was by myself so I didn't bleed them yet. Pulled the drums and hit the brakes again and the right rear wheel cylinder popped the piston. I will get a new one of them vs just putting it back together. They are cheap and it probably should not have popped out. Maybe I get lucky and that was the culprit. I doubt it though as it was dry in that brake assembly.

I have to make a decision about the trim before I paint the lower parts. It still has the pins on the doors and holes in the fender and quarter for the trim. If deleting the trim I need to cut the pins off and fill the holes. If the trim was black I think that's the route I would take. The inserts are a chalky red now days. I tried cleaning them. They look good while wet but once dry they get chalky again. I have rolled the fenders and quarter so I doubt that trim will bolt on anyway.

Prolly going to see if I can match the red. We have a local parts store that premixes rattle cans. I may try them but I ran my mouth last time there over the parts kid wearing a mesh mask and coughing like crazy during covid. He was obviously sick as hell yet they had him at the counter wearing a lacy mesh mask thing. Looked like something off a strippers bottom vs a mask. Had he not been actively coughing his brains out I wouldn't have cared but that was before vaccines were out. With my health history I am more paranoid than most. I told him if he had a real mask he prolly wouldn't be so sick. He got mad and we started yelling then the manager came out and I told him he was an idiot making the kid work as sick as he was much less letting him work with a g string on his face at the counter.

And I wonder why my sons and wife don't like me out and about on my own. I need a damn babysitter anymore.

Ohh wait a second. GET OFF MY LAWN. Damn kids now days.

 

[LILCBRA]

I'm not sure if this would work on red as most everyone uses it on the now-common black plastic pieces, but you might try this on a small piece of that trim to see if it works. I have a bottle that I use on my truck from time to time - it's white out of the bottle, so it shouldn't leave a tint. Could work, could not - but it might be worth a try....

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/turtle-wax/turtle-wax-10-ounce-10-ounce-trim-restorer/tur0/50601/v/a/130953/automotive-truck-2015-ram-1500?q=Plastic+restore&pos=3

 

[85GTStangGuy]

paint body parts red and reinstall trim

Wait was that even a choice offered?

That was gonna be my choice, even though it wasn't actually a choice.

But then I read that you weren't sure the trim would even fit due to the rolled wheelwells, so now I'm back to "2) Paint it red".

 

[IICrew]

No paint decisions yet.

But... Only put a few miles on them so far. Yet we have a much better ride up front. The coil overs have made a huge difference. Front end goes over bumps much better. Pressing down on the fender it feels similar too before so I was worried it was not going to be much different. The coil overs are 500lb where the oem were close to 350. The math says it would be harsher now. That is not the case. It feels more.... controlled. Not as bouncy. Absorbs the bumps vs hopping over them. Well worth the money.

I wonder if the KYB shocks are too stiff? They were brand new 4 years ago and only have 2,000 miles on them. They were not worn out. The ride did not deteriorate. It's has always been rough. The coil overs are a big improvment and I have not even dialed them in yet. Ride is too low and I have not touched the adjuster on the shocks. Yet they have a much better feel and ride.

Still have some weird brake issue but I am making progress. Never found an actual leak although the rear reservoir was completely dry. I replaced the right rear wheel cylinder. While it was down I lengthened the brake push rod 1 turn. The pedal has been low since I built it. It has been bled and rears adjusted multiple times by me and by a local shop. Never could get a good pedal feel.

I bled the brakes and went for a drive. Pedal was higher. About the correct feel. Not to the floor like before. First couple miles was fine. Then I started getting a vibration. It felt like the entire car at first. I pulled over to make sure I didn't forget to tighten a wheel it was so bad and such a sudden onset. While checking the lugs I noticed the front wheels were very hot and smelled of overheating brakes. Being a couple miles from home I turned around and headed back.

The vibration was so bad I slowed to 25mph the last mile. By now it was apparent in the steering wheel. It was moving a good inch or two back and forth. When I let off the gas the car came to a stop on it's own. The front brakes are hanging up. It rolls fine cold but after a couple miles it was undrivable. The kicker is it felt exactly like the vibration I have been chasing since I built the car. Just much more pronounced and much faster onset.

I pulled the push rod and took a half turn out. Brakes were not as bad as before but still hanging up and much too hot after just a few miles. I had ran out of time today so that is far as I made it. I will pull the push rod and take it 1/2 turn shorter then my starting point. Even if the pedal is too low I will be able to verify my suspicion of warped rotors. They like the shocks were brand new. The vibration has been there since the build so I may have a bad set?

The vibration always started very mild but got worse the longer it was driven. It never felt nearly as bad as today but it feels the same to me. Hard to pinpoint before but today it getting so bad it was easy to see it was in the steering axle. Clearly was brake related. I never had a pulsatiuon when braking though. Still don't. So I am not 100% sure. Just cannot see any other part up front that could cause it that has not been replaced.

I will get new rotors when I can and thinking a proportioning valve may be in order? I should not have to choose between the pedal on the floor or hanging brakes. Possibly a new master cylinder as well? I hate hanging parts but I just don't trust the brake system right now. It was all new 2000 miles ago. Except the proportioning valve.

Stay tuned for the next episode of As the Wheel Turns.

 

[2Blue2]

Never found an actual leak although the rear reservoir was completely dry

This worries me, mine leaked into brake booster.

 

[extra_stout]

I wonder if the KYB shocks are too stiff?

Your right, KYB gas-adjust-shocks are more on the stiff side.
In the back with a original("soft") leaf spring they work very good, even you have a lot of body roll in the back (without sway bar) you have a lot of grip at the back. It feels unstable because of that body roll, but they grip...
At least that is my experience (with my MII and my 66 hardtop).

I have ordered 450 lbs springs for the front and will keep the KYB shocks. I will report how the spring rate change on the front will feel/behave like.

 

[IICrew]

I thought it may be leaking into the booster too. That was part of the reason to deal with the push rod length. Other then the master cylinder being rusty it appears fine. No fluid in the booster.

Here is the part where I would have rolled my eyes and snickered at a customer standing at the service desk. Knowing he had no clue what he was talking about. Brake fluid does not evaporate. My 94 Ram looses brake fluid to some unknown dimension as well. It has happened about 4 times in 15 years on the old Ram. Only the rear brake reservoir and it's unpredictable. Happened to him once while he was using it for work. We had changed or checked the fluids a few days before since it had been sitting and he was going to start using it daily for work. We know it was full then within a few days empty. We pulled the wheels and no fluid could be found anywhere. The brake lines were replaced years ago with copper nickel lines. Topped it off, bled the brakes and she was fine for a couple years. Same pattern several times now. One reason I bought a newer truck. I could not trust the old ram to haul anything.

I have had front brake hoses collapse on customer cars in the past which cause similar symptoms. Pressure builds up and fluid cannot return to the master. Letting them sit for a while the brakes act normal. The hoses I have are new steel braided lines. Well they were new with the brake system. I may try to replace them along with new rotors. They are probably the cheapest possible suspect. I just don't think the proportioning valve can cause this symptom. Only reason I suspect it may be an issue is that it is the only remaining part of the old brakes.

I will be removing the kyb from the back as well. Probably be a while to get to it but the ride is just harsh. Had my kid with me yesterday and he was commenting how the front finally feels right and the rear end is next on the list. I still have oem rear springs with some sag. No rear sway bar yet. If anything the ass end should be soft and pillowy. Feels closer to a hard tail with no suspension back there currently.

 

[extra_stout]

If anything the ass end should be soft and pillowy. Feels closer to a hard tail with no suspension back there currently.

That doesn't sound right. There is a very bumpy street which I drive very often and the back feels like it should with "soft" spring and "stiff" damper...
At the front I have the KYB gas-a-just (KG4511).
In the back KYB GR-2 / Excel-G (343148).

 

[IICrew]

Took another turn out of the push rod. I am now 1/2 to 3/4 turn shorter then I was to start this round. Drove for around 45 minutes. Mostly 35 to 60 mph on back roads. I still have a mild vibration around 60+ mph although it is much better than it was. I would not be worried driving at highway speeds now. Not a shimmy or even hint of pulsation when braking. I wonder if the heat build up / expansion caused the pads to grab vs rotors to warp? I still want new rotors and pads. These have to be heat damaged or glazed. Wonder if the rotors are not balanced correctly? These are obviously a big part of the vibration I was chasing.

Even though I have the push rod shorter than before the pedal feel is much better. Not as good as when they were grabbing but much better than before I started this round. The only change I made was the one wheel cylinder. Only because I blew it apart hitting the brakes with the drum off. I don't see how that helped the pedal feel but maybe something was not right with it from the get go? I made no adjustment to the shoes while apart. I did bleed the brakes again but that was done several times by me and the shop up the street once.

I cannot get over the improvement from the coil overs. The front end is quieter. Handles better. Ride is so much better. I can feel the need for a rear sway bar now. The front end stays planted while the ass end plays catches up. I love how low it is sitting although it rubs when going through heavy dips or with a passenger. I will have to raise the front end for a daily driver but nice to know I can drive it low like this for the mythical track day I will never take it too.

 

[LILCBRA]

Looks good! But I might be a little biased as it looks like it sits like mine does.

 

[2Blue2]

nice to know I can drive it low

it sits like mine does.

They both look good!

 

[LILCBRA]

Just watched this video and thought of your brake pedal conundrum. Actually, thinking of my car too since the pedal feels a little mushy and I've not lost any fluid anywhere. Will probably be pulling my front wheels off and lubing the calipers up since it's sat for a while without any real driving time. Maybe this will help you too....


View: https://youtu.be/Ykj-A-YPOGo

 

[IICrew]

The weather turned cold and wet here. Plus they have my driveway torn up installing a sewer line for the town I live near. No more driving her for a week or so. Hopefully it's warmer then too.

I have no idea why the pedal was so low. I can only imagine I did not bleed it properly or somehow that wheel cylinder was a problem all along. I don't see how that wheel cylinder would cause it but it's the only part I replaced. Pedal feel was much better the last drive I was able to go on.

I did pull the right front brakes apart to clean and add some grease to the back of the pads while I had the springs off. That side was squeaking at times last year. The calipers are the gm metric for the 11" kit. They are like new. Slides on that side were nice and slippery.

I have a couple hundo for parts this friday. Trying to decide on what to get. Jegs has a nice price on the oem style rear sway bar from addco. i will need to fab the bracket for the frame and come up with sway bar end links but I think I prefer the oem style to the one for non sway bar cars. I have the traction bars that come with the sway bar mounts and have read the non sway bar equipped bar hangs really low. I think that and rear shocks would be the best way forward.

My choices for rear shocks are monroe, gabriel and sachs. KYB is on there now and I am thinking they are why it's too harsh. Never heard of sachs but they are supposedly an oem supplier. Monroe in my opinion is now bottom of the barrel. I ran into too many issues with customer cars to recommend them anymore.

So today I am leaning towards trying the sachs. Tomorrow who knows.

 

[IICrew]

Cannot brag enough about the difference the coil overs made for me. Front end feels sooooo much better.

No brake fluid lost over about 150 miles of driving on multiple short trips. Most trips were about 20 miles at a time. I do not know where it all went. Vibrations were minimal. These trips were kept below 60ish mph. Car seemed to be doing great so we went on a longer ride.

Took her on a short trip this past weekend. About 15 miles of highway driving both ways. About 10 miles on surface streets. Sat for about 2 hours at our destination. She was doing great. Minor vibration at 70 but nothing too concerning. On the way home after about 5 miles at 70mph It started vibrating. Within about 2 miles it went from that feels like before to ohh I have to pull over. It feels like a front wheel is coming off. The steering wheel was shaking about 2 inches left and right. Stood on the brakes and pulled over. I walked around the vehicle. Nothing obvious. Very hot front wheels but otherwise looked okay. Hopped back in and the vibration was back to a minor annoyance. A few miles later it was coming back with a vengence. I made it to my exit doing 50mph and limped her back home. Man it is embarrassing to drive a loud ass hot rod 50 in a 65. Just not right at all.

When it happened it felt like I was on the brakes the whole time and had severely warped rotors. Stopped at the highway ramp the car usually will roll backwards on the incline. It stayed put with no brakes applied. Taking off took more effort than usual. They are hanging up again. I say again. In reality I don't think I ever got it too stop.

In my mind I have ruled out the master cylinder and brake pedal rod. The rod is shortened and the pedal is lower than it should be. I can lift the brake pedal several inches when this is occurring. Plenty of slack. I am currently thinking I either have bad front brake lines or calipers. I just cannot understand why both sides do it though. Usually a caliper or brake line will cause one side to drag. I know the rotors are warped now but I do not want to replace them until I find the root cause.

I am going to order new front brake lines. I have stainless braided lines now that only have about 2,000 miles on them. No way are they worn out but maybe something was wrong when they were manufactured. Visually they look like new brake lines. Since the drag changes with brake usage or just cruising down the highway the lines are the only thing I can think of. The calipers are easy to compress the piston. They slide back and forth like they should. Not saying they are innocent but I cannot see anything unusual.

This is frustrating. Car is almost there but this has cost me a lot of cash we dont have and I cannot take it on outings. I live in bfe and most of my friends and family live on the other side of Cincinnati. Just cannot go on the highway for any length of time.

I ordered the Sachs rear shocks. Looking into the company a little more they have been around for a long time. they are now a division of ZF. I have some experience with ZF as a company and was impressed with them. They bought a transmission factory from Ford years ago. I was friends with a german engineer who they brought over here to help fix things. The factory and staff were so bad they closed it after a couple years trying to fix the facility. They developed a CVT for Ford and the Ford execs went ballistic when ZF said the fluid lasts 150k miles. Ford told them they would not buy it at the current price since the fluid lasts too long. ZF refused to budge. They make the 8 speed in my Ram and by god that is the best transmission I have ever driven. Bar none.

I am looking into rear sway bar links. I will be getting the factory style bar and will need to make something work on the body side. Once I figure that out the suspension should be good to go for a long while. Hopefully.

I realize I tend to ramble. Sorry for the long posts. Hopefully they help someone else one day avoid the mistakes I keep making.

 

[LILCBRA]

If your car came from the factory with a rear sway bar, there should be 2 brackets to mount the end links to. If they're not there, I don't think they're all that complicated of a design that you could probably get away with a little fabrication in making a pair. Let me know if none of your cars have a rear sway bar (although I'd suspect that your Mach 1 does) and I'll crawl back under mine and show you what I'm talking about. Unfortunately I don't have mine any longer, but it had one originally.

Speaking of getting a factory style bar, is the one you're talking about new? I wouldn't argue about reinstalling one in my car....

 

[extra_stout]

I ordered the Sachs rear shocks. Looking into the company a little more they have been around for a long time. they are now a division of ZF. I have some experience with ZF as a company and was impressed with them. They bought a transmission factory from Ford years ago. I was friends with a german engineer who they brought over here to help fix things. The factory and staff were so bad they closed it after a couple years trying to fix the facility. They developed a CVT for Ford and the Ford execs went ballistic when ZF said the fluid lasts 150k miles. Ford told them they would not buy it at the current price since the fluid lasts too long. ZF refused to budge. They make the 8 speed in my Ram and by god that is the best transmission I have ever driven. Bar none.

ZF means "Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen"= gear factory Friedrichshafen
They are very experienced with transmissions. Especially automatic transmission with 8+ gears. They outfit all the expensive european cars with automatic transmissions. I think they also have manual transmissions with high torque rating.
Sachs is also known for their racing division over here...
The 5 speed transaxle manual used in the 60ties Ford GT40 was also from ZF. It was working so good, that DeTomaso used the same transmission in the Pantera, which also was equipped with a Ford V8.

 

[IICrew]

No factory bar on Christine. I did add the traction bars which have the mounting perch for the bar already. Three of the cars here have one so I can make that half moon piece. I could have stolen from one of them but the 3 that have one run or will run one day. I think they are 3/4 bars on the non running cars anyway. The new one is 7/8. That should go better with the 1" on the front.

Addco 346 is the factory style bar. I just ordered it from Jegs. They have it priced wrong so I wanted to get it before they realized. It is usually $320ish but they have it for $236 currently. I also ordered 3/8 female rod ends and energy suspension 3/8 sway bar bushings to make sway bar end links. I think with a few bolts and making that half moon piece it should work out.

Ordered new front brake lines. Since I have the gm calipers I am not 100% sure they are correct but I think they will work. They are dot approved and look a lot thicker than whats on it. If they don't fix it I guess a master cylinder is next.

If that doesn't fix it a friend has a bunch of tannerite......

Err umm I see willwood has dual piston calipers that replace the gm calipers I have now. hmmmmm

 

[2Blue2]

Fricken brakes, WTF! Gurrr...

 

[IICrew]

Ordered Sachs shocks from Rock Auto. Webpage had a note it's the last 2 left. So I jumped on them. I received my shocks yesterday yet today the webpage still says last 2 Sachs shocks.

Not that they are lying since I received TRW shocks instead of the Sachs I ordered. Their website does not even list a TRW shock for the II.

Funny thing is I have not found TRW shocks when searching for Mustang II rear shocks anywhere. I did find this part number for a 73 Mustang rear shocks. The 73 is one of the heaviest of the early mustangs. There is no way these shocks can be tuned for both the heaviest mustang and the lightest. Wonder if thats why the KYB are so harsh. They are meant for a car that weighs close to 4,000 lbs but since they physically fit they are listed for a car weighing under 3,000 lbs.

I spent the last 10 minutes trying to find an email address for Rockauto. I cannot find it on their site. All I can find is start a return. I want to talk with someone. Is the listing wrong? If so which listing. Why did they send me a part that they do not even list as an option.

TRW is owned by ZF now too. I guess that is why they sent them. Does not answer my other questions.

I have never had a problem with Rockauto so never needed to contact them. Now I am doubtful I will ever order again from them. If you make it difficult to contact you I don't want to do business with you.

 

[LILCBRA]

Hope this helps! Their support email is at the bottom of the page. I just googled "contact rockauto customer service"

Help with Existing Orders

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.

www.rockauto.com

[email protected]

You'd think they'd have a link somewhere more accessible....