Final spindle assembly prototype

degins · Sep 30, 2005

Update Mustang Disc Swap Spindles.

The attached photos are of the final (5th) prototype of a Granada type steering knuckle, caliper bracket, dust shield, and shield flange. These are all new parts from my molds and dies. The spindle parts are fab'ed from high quality steel of higher grade than the originals. The shield and flange are stamped from cold rolled steel and painted in the original semi-gloss chassis black. The whole thing is held together with grade 8 bolts and automotive type SEMS bolts.

I have analysed the spindle parts for chemical and mechanical properties. They exceed the original products for UTS and YS (ultimate tensile strength and Yield strength). A very high strength alloy was used.

I will be offering these for sale in November as a stand alone product as well as a a complete disc swap including everything from the spindles out including
slotted rotors, calipers and pads, all the small parts, hoses, and bearings and seals

At that time I will ask the moderator if they would approve of a forum deal.

In the mean time, I am working on other models.

Attached photos:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/completeassembly.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/spindlebracketassemfront.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/spindlebracketassemblyback.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/shield.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/sealandflange3.jpg

66stangbluework · Sep 30, 2005

very nice degins, whats a ballpark guess as to what the kit will run?

HistoricMustang · Sep 30, 2005

degins said:
Update Mustang Disc Swap Spindles.

The attached photos are of the final (5th) prototype of a Granada type steering knuckle, caliper bracket, dust shield, and shield flange. These are all new parts from my molds and dies. The spindle parts are fab'ed from high quality steel of higher grade than the originals. The shield and flange are stamped from cold rolled steel and painted in the original semi-gloss chassis black. The whole thing is held together with grade 8 bolts and automotive type SEMS bolts.

I have analysed the spindle parts for chemical and mechanical properties. They exceed the original products for UTS and YS (ultimate tensile strength and Yield strength). A very high strength alloy was used.

I will be offering these for sale in November as a stand alone product as well as a a complete disc swap including everything from the spindles out including
slotted rotors, calipers and pads, all the small parts, hoses, and bearings and seals

At that time I will ask the moderator if they would approve of a forum deal.

In the mean time, I am working on other models.

Attached photos:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/completeassembly.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/spindlebracketassemfront.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/spindlebracketassemblyback.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/shield.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1018497/sealandflange3.jpg

Will these carry the "Off Road Environment Only" disclaimer?

Meaning they should not be used on street vehicles.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

10secgoal · Sep 30, 2005

Ole Historic givin' him the 36 grit again.

mustangdave · Sep 30, 2005

Looks nice but couldn't you make them beefier? Like, race indestruictible. Seems if you went through all of this trouble, you woukd say something like...."they withstood the 24 hrs. of Lemans and didn't have a scratch or some other crap like that to get us to buy them.

degins · Sep 30, 2005

mustangdave said:
Looks nice but couldn't you make them beefier? Like, race indestruictible. Seems if you went through all of this trouble, you woukd say something like...."they withstood the 24 hrs. of Lemans and didn't have a scratch or some other crap like that to get us to buy them.

They are a lot beefier than original 65-69 spindles and stonger than 70-73. In any case, right now I'm more interested in addressing the market for an economical disc brake swap. And, with all due respect, what is "race indestructable", and how much would you pay for it?

mustangracer · Sep 30, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Will these carry the "Off Road Environment Only" disclaimer?

Meaning they should not be used on street vehicles.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Go ride your vintage horse back where you came from. I'm tired of hearing you whinny every time someone does, says or promotes something you don't agree with.

On an engineering note, I'd like to see the real numbers on how many original spindles actually fail from fatigue. I do understand people have found stress fractures under magnaflux or x-ray, but has anyone actually determined how long the fractures had been there or if they were actually getting worse?, or just replaced them as soon as they were found? If the percentage is as low as I think it is for a 40 year old part, I'm thinking these new ones will take a pretty good pounding fresh from the manufacturer. Those spindle failures I've heard about have been from external factors, like running bearings dry and shearing the snout.

Route666 · Oct 1, 2005

degins said:
They are a lot beefier than original 65-69 spindles and stonger than 70-73. In any case, right now I'm more interested in addressing the market for an economical disc brake swap. And, with all due respect, what is "race indestructable", and how much would you pay for it?

And there is no point to making them TOO beefy, if the extra mass is going to stop the suspension for keeping the tyres on the road.

degins · Oct 1, 2005

mustangracer said:
Go ride your vintage horse back where you came from. I'm tired of hearing you whinny every time someone does, says or promotes something you don't agree with.

On an engineering note, I'd like to see the real numbers on how many original spindles actually fail from fatigue. I do understand people have found stress fractures under magnaflux or x-ray, but has anyone actually determined how long the fractures had been there or if they were actually getting worse?, or just replaced them as soon as they were found? If the percentage is as low as I think it is for a 40 year old part, I'm thinking these new ones will take a pretty good pounding fresh from the manufacturer. Those spindle failures I've heard about have been from external factors, like running bearings dry and shearing the snout.

Agreed. In the case of most Mustang disc brake systems, a wheel is much more likely to come off due to the rotor breaking off the hub then spindle failure. The rotors are made of gray Iron and are very brittle. I haven't witnessed or had first hand testimony of either. Anyone who has removed a tie rod or ball joint stud from a spindle using the old "big hammer" know how tough they are. Try the same thing on a stuck rotor or drum and you will see how brittle they are.

As to the other subject, internet blogging has resulted in some very interesting and disturbing human behavior. I think that those who use the forum as an avenue to express their sick nature should be ignored. These "trolls" are often quite knowledgeable, but they prefer getting off on being unnecessarily obstinant and destructive of civil discussion than in making a valuable contribution.

Sorry to get off topic and serious. I do enjoy hearing the constructive opinions and criticial contributions of my fellow enthusiast. That's why I post here.

Hack · Oct 1, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Will these carry the "Off Road Environment Only" disclaimer?

Meaning they should not be used on street vehicles.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Enough already!

HistoricMustang · Oct 1, 2005

mustangracer said:
Go ride your vintage horse back where you came from. I'm tired of hearing you whinny every time someone does, says or promotes something you don't agree with.

Here we go, more "mubo jumbo"......................can you answer my simple question?

The readers need to know if they buy this product will it be legal for street use or will they be in violation of the law.

Sitting on handcuffs, that happen to be attached to your wrists, in the back of a squad car is very uncomfortable - trust me, I know.

HistoridMustang
www.historicmustang.com

10secgoal · Oct 1, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Sitting on handcuffs, that happen to be attached to your wrists, in the back of a squad car is very uncomfortable - trust me, I know.

That because you did something you shouldn't have ? Or because you were running a wheel stud that wasn't street legal ?

Edbert · Oct 1, 2005

So what kind of stress testing did you do on these? LOL...JUST KIDDING! Keep up the good work degins!

Cut Historic some slack guys, we need to encourage all points-of-view here in my opinion. You don;t have to agree with his, just like he doesn;t have to agree with yours. It makes this BBS more informative for everyone do have disagreements, but lets try hard to keep personal insults out of it, that does nobody any good.

stangman16 · Oct 1, 2005

Edbert said:
Cut Historic some slack guys, we need to encourage all points-of-view here in my opinion. You don;t have to agree with his, just like he doesn;t have to agree with yours. It makes this BBS more informative for everyone do have disagreements, but lets try hard to keep personal insults out of it, that does nobody any good.

I agree. His constructive criticism is welcome in my opinion - helping make each aspect fully aware. just my $.02

66stangbluework · Oct 1, 2005

lol

degins · Oct 1, 2005

Edbert said:
So what kind of stress testing did you do on these? LOL...JUST KIDDING! Keep up the good work degins!

Cut Historic some slack guys, we need to encourage all points-of-view here in my opinion. You don;t have to agree with his, just like he doesn;t have to agree with yours. It makes this BBS more informative for everyone do have disagreements, but lets try hard to keep personal insults out of it, that does nobody any good.

Edbert, Actually quite a lot! Probably not the type that you are "tongue in cheek" implying, but scientific type like testing for tensile strength, harness, toughness. Also, chemical analysis gives us, by virtue of the elemental content, a very good idea of the potential wear and service properties of the alloy. I am spending a lot on additional Manganese, Nickel, Chromium, and Molybnium to insure the toughness of the alloy. I've seen spindles advertised using grade 1045, a mild non-alloy steel. I'm using an alloy that is about twice as strong as that and contains the alloying elements mentioned above.

To be candid, developing this product was more about the measuring and machining than the alloy selection. The necessary CNC fixtures are expensive and as stated before; their development is an iterative process (thus 5 prototypes).

If prevailing legal and commercial standards force me to make some absurd statement about the intended use of this product, then I will make them. I can assure you that I am giving a lot of thought and care to the production of this product.

To address your other issue, trolls don't make their statements or pose questions in order to promote discourse. They do so to promote controversy and ill feelings. This is what floats their boat.

In anticipation one of the next questions, I do not intend to do extensive road testing of this product. Ford, and Granada owners have done that over the last 30 years. I am merely offering a reproduction of a time tested design. My challenge was in making a reproduction which have equivalent or superior physical properties. To those who can't agree with this, I must regretfully count you among the billions of people who will not consider purchasing this product.

degins · Oct 2, 2005

66stangbluework said:
very nice degins, whats a ballpark guess as to what the kit will run?

Sorry I've taken so long to reply. I don't have anything for sale and I'm not taking orders, so nobody needs to be concerned about forum rules. I plan to offer the first 100 sets through selected venues for $220 a pair for the spindle/brackets including new shields or $395 including everything from spindles out, everything new including slotted rotors except for remanufactured calipers (I'm working on aluminum versions). Hoses included, but no hard lines. I will contact the forum moderator for permission when the parts become available.

How's that?

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005...eteassembly.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005...tassemfront.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005...ssemblyback.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005...8497/shield.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005...landflange3.jpg

Tubo(2-bo) · Oct 2, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Will these carry the "Off Road Environment Only" disclaimer?

Meaning they should not be used on street vehicles.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Heck, I thought such a disclaimer, saying "for off road use only" because it would be almost impossible for a small businessman to get insurance, for his product, used on the street. So any responsiblity for street use would be on the car owners head.

bnickel · Oct 2, 2005

Tubo3 said:
Heck, I thought such a disclaimer, saying "for off road use only" because it would be almost impossible for a small businessman to get insurance, for his product, used on the street. So any responsiblity for street use would be on the car owners head.

that is exactly correct, insurance is a big deal on brake and suspension parts and with the sue happy mentality of this country over the last few years i'm not at all surprised. there are some very good aftermarket parts that bear these marking that are prefectly acceptable for street use, such as Opentrackers roller spring perches for example, but due to the prohibitive cost of insuring these parts he has to sell them as off raod only parts.

to be quite honest i don't understand why historic is making such a big deal of this anyway since he is running granada spindles on his race car. i would think he would be happy about finding an affordable alternative in case he needs to replace his for some reason or another. i have had run ins with curbs before that required getting new *(used) spindles and if i had an affordable alternative available as a brand new part i would sure appreciate it. that said these won't help me out at all since i have the stock front disc brakes on my car and when i build my big disc kit for the car it will use 69 drum spindles that i acquired from chepsk8 so i can build new brackets hopefully using original brackets as a guide.

HistoricMustang · Oct 2, 2005

Have never said you sould not buy this product.

I do believe that if an individual (or company's) sold purpose on this forum is to sell product then they should be receptive to questions about what is being offered to the members here at StangNet.

If they get defensive I get concerned.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Final spindle assembly prototype

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