Finally! A valid TFS-R and TFS Box R intake dyno comparison on a street stroker.

[NIKwoaC]

Right, I know my cam & intake are doing a serious limitation to what theses heads can potentially do. I mean 320rwtq Ecam pushing "P" heads is begging for more air/lift
So i read your entire build last night and loved how you thought outside the box for your build. I had limited funds on my build at the time but had a vision of a high compression/small cam build and surprised a sh!t ton of folks too My funds are limited with this DD so i cannot do any type of cam up grade but I may be able to add more air flow, maybe adding an intake. If I were to get a TFS R, I could be ready for future upgrade when building another motor. Think my Ecam could blossom even further??

Last I checked, a cam costs about half as much as an intake. Granted, you'll have to buy a couple more gaskets with a cam swap than you would an intake, but it's a moot point really. I don't like to give cam suggestions, but I'll gladly remind you that the E-cam was entry level technology back in the 90s... It's caveman by today's standards! You're much better off with something else in that regard.

Really though, we're talking incremental gains. If you want to do something that makes a noticeable performance jump in your car, you should be investigating boost and/or more displacement!

Ok so im off the R intake, just not spinning past 5800-6000 on the streets anyways and i know the ecam is outta breath there anyways. And i need all the rwtrq i can get with my heavy DD on the streets.

Read my thread again! It was all about dispelling the myth that big parts hurt torque and street-ability. In 80-degree weather, and just rolling into the throttle in 2nd gear, my car will haze the tires staring around 4000 RPM and continue to do so until the computer cuts fuel at 6600 RPM. My car has no problems with torque anywhere in the curve, and it's propensity to sing at the top of the tach just makes it even more fun to drive.

 

[Grabbin' Asphalt]

I was thinking intake because i could do it quick to my DD but if im going cam im gonna add the CI to it. But im kinda scared my ecam would be losing to much rwtrq in the streets for my set up if I go TFS R

 

[Sharad]

I'm a proponent of custom cams, but my cam cost a lot more than my TFS Box-R.

 

[FastDriver]

Happened to be researching some other stuff and came across the article I wrote about in the OP, here:

Dyno-Proven Small-Block Ford Performance - Richard Holdener - Google Books

 

[from6to8]

Happened to be researching some other stuff and came across the article I wrote about in the OP, here:

Dyno-Proven Small-Block Ford Performance - Richard Holdener - Google Books

I'm deciding on a performer rpm 2 or Tfs box R for my 400 ci, weekend driver, non-track car. Afr 205 with custom cam, probably LT 1 3/4's

 

[FastDriver]

Box R

 

[from6to8]

Box R

i'm inquiring though about not having hood clearance issues lol.
I have a cervini's stalker hood

 

[FastDriver]

All I can tell you is that I used motor mounts that brought the motor down, and I have a 2.5" kaenen cowl hood. It barely fits. That's with an 8.2" decked 302. The RPMII would fit under a stocker with a 302. With a 351 and a TFS R, you'll need plenty of room, but I have no idea which hood the stalker is, and unfortunately don't have time to do the research. Hopefully someone else here has tried. Good luck!

 

[from6to8]

All I can tell you is that I used motor mounts that brought the motor down, and I have a 2.5" kaenen cowl hood. It barely fits. That's with an 8.2" decked 302. The RPMII would fit under a stocker with a 302. With a 351 and a TFS R, you'll need plenty of room, but I have no idea which hood the stalker is, and unfortunately don't have time to do the research. Hopefully someone else here has tried. Good luck!

Yeah it's the cervini's stalker ram air hood and a 2 to 2 1/2 raise. The rpm 2 is about 5/8 inches shorter than the box R and I like the rpm 2 on my 302 so I may just go with the 351 one. If I have to notch the hood where it's hitting I'll do that. And I don't Wana bring the motor down and have LT ground hithing issues

 

[from6to8]

ok so I have finally made some headway with what I want to do. I will have 3 cars in a few days when my 94 cobra arrives and that's including the wrecked 95 ( avatar pic).

I have a situation where I was first concentrating on the 400 W I'm going to build and deciding which intake to get. I did narrow it down to the Box R or an elbow intake converted EFI. My boy with his 408 told me the TFS R was too small for his combo and he switched to the Box and picked up 35 hp.

Now my situation is I've decided I want a 331 as well so I'll build that first. Since I have a wrecked 302 with a Performer rpm 2 and TW 170 cc's, I was just going to use those on the 331 and may still do if I don't sell the entire 302 motor or the heads and intake. I'm thinking to go with AFR 185s or a TF equivalent head to that and either another Rpm 2 or the TFS R. I'll have to research which intake would make more sense with my combo. And the car will be just a nice weekend driving streetcar, No track, matter of fact both cars will be. And also NA for both. May drive a few times a week sometimes. I'll eventually have 2 stangs, maybe 3 if I get the Termi after I build the 400. So yes decisions decisions. I did also decide that I'd live with the 331 setup using the heads and intake on my 302 as the 400 W should achieve 500 hp at least.

I'll be making a post on the fb groups maybe tomorrow with the engine pics and a video of the car running even as it's wrecked in the rear. If someone buys the motor or just the heads and intake, then I'll definitely get the AFR 185s or TF equivalent and then another intake for the 331.

 

[FastDriver]

Good deal, man. Keep us posted!

 

[from6to8]

Good deal, man. Keep us posted!

No opinion on the previous post LOL?
Suggestions or anything? And will do

 

[FastDriver]

Not really, man. I didn't see any question in there and it sounds like you're on the right track. RPM II is a good intake for a 331. I have a Box R on my 331 with AFR 205s. So, obviously I think highly of that intake. The Systemax II isn't a bad choice either, but all three could use a little massaging to get the right port alignment.

 

[from6to8]

Not really, man. I didn't see any question in there and it sounds like you're on the right track. RPM II is a good intake for a 331. I have a Box R on my 331 with AFR 205s. So, obviously I think highly of that intake. The Systemax II isn't a bad choice either, but all three could use a little massaging to get the right port alignment.

Okay cool sounds good. Yeah if I don't sell my motor or the heads and intake I'm going to just use the 302 parts and which is the intake RPM to and tf1 70s. Going to also build a 400 Windsor and I'm leaning toward the elbow setup with a Victor lower

 

[dan50]

All I can tell you is that I used motor mounts that brought the motor down, and I have a 2.5" kaenen cowl hood. It barely fits. That's with an 8.2" decked 302. The RPMII would fit under a stocker with a 302. With a 351 and a TFS R, you'll need plenty of room, but I have no idea which hood the stalker is, and unfortunately don't have time to do the research. Hopefully someone else here has tried. Good luck!

Chris are you saying you got the TFS Box R to fit on a 302 under a 2.5" hood? Which motor mounts did you use? LMR has a 2" steel hood that looks interesting. I'm wondering if a 2" hood, drop motor mounts, and having a shorter plate under the upper would work.

Thanks

 

[from6to8]

Chris are you saying you got the TFS Box R to fit on a 302 under a 2.5" hood? Which motor mounts did you use? MR has a 2" steel hood that looks interesting. I'm wondering if a 2" hood, drop motor mounts, and having a shorter plate under the upper would work.

Thanks

I doubt that's what he's saying. From everything I"ve read over the years it's a pain to get it fit under most hoods and I'd suspect you need maybe 3 " mininum maybe 3.5 ish. Lol just read and again and maybe he did get it to fit barely

 

[FastDriver]

It fit. I'll go measure the Kaenen, now on Black Jack, for the exact height. Bought the SOLID mounts in 2007-2008, and I don't remember anymore. I might have an invoice for them, but I doubt it. Better go solid mounts, as you don't want a motor that tight shifting around.

Getting it under the Kaenen was tight, but the real miracle was getting it under the heat extractor hood. Gotta credit the boys at Our Dream Auto for that one:

One thing to consider is the spacer between the upper & lower. I wanna say that spacer, stock, is 1". You can order a 5/8" spacer. Then, you'll run the upper really close to the wires on the dizzy. Like so close that you'll have to pull the upper just to pop the dizzy's cap or the rear wires off, but it can gain some clearance, and that's part of what they had to do to clear the heat extractor. It cleared the Kaenen with the stock spacer.

Not sure if the UPR K-member made a difference. Motor might also be slightly offset to the rear which would help, as it's the front edge of the upper that causes clearance problems.

At the center, which is the hoods highest point, the height above the cowl plastic is ~2". I measured the cowl plastic on the side as about 1/2". So, I believe it is truley a 2.5" hood as marketed.

That said, at the side of the cowl the raised portion of the hood is taller than 2.5, but still less than 3". The cowl plastic itself, although this pic is a bad angle for reference, is about 1/2"-ish above the hood surface. I guess the take away here is that the raised cowl portion of the hood is a little flatter as opposed to a stock hood that slopes away more.

I believe there's less bracing on a Kaenen than a Cervini or other cowl hoods, though I don't have others to compare directly. This matters, because you'll need as much clearance as possible both at the throttle body & the front of the TFS Box Upper. In fact, if you look closely, you can see where I damaged this hood by leaving a tool on the TB and closed the hood on it, which deformed it and cracked the paint on top. Behind that, it still looks like it's rubbed something. I never straightened it out but plan to whenever I can financially get around to a paint job for Black Jack. With Army retirement looming, it's likely to be a while, though.

 

[dan50]

Very cool. I was reading about that intake somewhere where someone had mocked up the shorter spacer and they were doing drop mounts and aftermarket K members and all to get it to fit. Lots of work! And only so many hours during the weekend lol. I see you're in Vass. I'm in Cary. If you're ever up here at a show or something, I'd love to see the car and the intake.

 

[FastDriver]

Very cool. I was reading about that intake somewhere where someone had mocked up the shorter spacer and they were doing drop mounts and aftermarket K members and all to get it to fit. Lots of work! And only so many hours during the weekend lol. I see you're in Vass. I'm in Cary. If you're ever up here at a show or something, I'd love to see the car and the intake.

No kiddin'? We definitely should. I love the morrisville Cars n Coffee. Can meet there. Can ya make it out to foxtoberfest, this year?