Finally Dyno Tuned

Black Stampede

Black Stampede

Founding Member
Sep 3, 2002
1,811
2
39
Grand Rapids, MI
#1
Well it is 12:30 am Saturday and I have been up since 3:30 am Friday so this post is not going to be anywhere close to all the details of what went down today. So rio95 and I left at 5:00 am on the 3 hour trip across the state to Alternative Auto. The trip was in pouring rain, lightning and high winds. Needless to say pulling the big enclosed trailer in the high winds was a nightmare. The thing swayed back and forth hardcore the entire way there.

Anyways, long story short Lidio got the startup, idle, and driveability perfect. Then he started making pulls up to 4 grand. He made a few of them and had it all tuned to 4 grand and all of the suddent coolant/water started spewing from the overflow. I'm not even going to get into the question of why right now as Lidio didn't even know and we haven't even looked at the car since we got it home. At first I was livid, but it ended working out ok besides the issue. The car was 100% dyno tuned up to 4 grand and for the rest of the band he plugged in his own values (obviously conservative). My plan was to run 10 lbs of boost and it had the 9 lb. spring in on the dyno. The part that was tuned on the dyno made 7.5 lbs, which I am fine with for now. My main plan was to just get it driving well and conservative right now so that I do not care about.

So I am fairly happy with it as it fires right up, idles sweet, and driveability is great. And really, the tune is perfectly fine and doesn't really need to be touched althought I am gonna take it back probably late summer after we figure out what the deal is.

Btw, it probably makes no sense what broke, why he stopped tuning, what happened, whatever, but I need to go to bed as I am about to pass out from sleep deprivation.
 
#3
Adam95GT said:
were you able to get any numbers? sounds like a pain in the ass. But as long as it runs good and pulls on the street. XXX RWHP doesn't really matter anyway
Click to expand...

Yeah exactly. The numbers really mean nothing to me anyways since obviously 7psi is nothing and I wouldn't expect any amazing numbers from that anyways. My dyno sheet only has two pulls and the first one was one of the early pulls. The second pull is at 7.5 psi, but it stops at 3400 rpm. At 3400 the torque was at 392 and climbing. Examining the graph makes me believes that a full pull at 7.5 psi would have produced around 380 rwhp and around 450 rwtq. Well 7.5 at 3400. I guess it would have prolly climbed a psi or so if given the chance. Not bad for 7.5 pounds off boost. My original plan was to run 10 psi and hopefully make around 415 rwhp and given these results that should be no issue, but for now I am fine with it the way it is.

Btw a little more info on the problem. At first Lidio thought there was a air pocket in the cooling system, which we tested and it wasn't. Then he thought the coolant wasn't cycling and the t-stat wasn't working so we ran down to Autozone and got one and threw it on while on the dyno. So he fired it up and it did not overheat and seemed ok. He made one pull and it spewed all over the place again. Also, there was no white smoke. Kinda strange.
 
#4
Black Stampede said:
Yeah exactly. The numbers really mean nothing to me anyways since obviously 7psi is nothing and I wouldn't expect any amazing numbers from that anyways. My dyno sheet only has two pulls and the first one was one of the early pulls. The second pull is at 7.5 psi, but it stops at 3400 rpm. At 3400 the torque was at 392 and climbing. Examining the graph makes me believes that a full pull at 7.5 psi would have produced around 380 rwhp and around 450 rwtq. Well 7.5 at 3400. I guess it would have prolly climbed a psi or so if given the chance. Not bad for 7.5 pounds off boost. My original plan was to run 10 psi and hopefully make around 415 rwhp and given these results that should be no issue, but for now I am fine with it the way it is.

Btw a little more info on the problem. At first Lidio thought there was a air pocket in the cooling system, which we tested and it wasn't. Then he thought the coolant wasn't cycling and the t-stat wasn't working so we ran down to Autozone and got one and threw it on while on the dyno. So he fired it up and it did not overheat and seemed ok. He made one pull and it spewed all over the place again. Also, there was no white smoke. Kinda strange.
Click to expand...

Stepping outside the equasion and looking in, it seems that something is pushhhhhhhhing it out...like forced air?
 
#6
Yeah I mean its obviously a pressure problem in some way. I forget why we ruled out a head lifting, but I'm pretty sure we did. I'll have to ask rio95. I forget all our speculation.

Keep in mind when trying to help me solve this that it was fine at idle and a few revs and didn't start spewing til it was pulled hard on the dyno. Not to mention that it start right up beautifully and revs great at my house. I have yet to look at it at all cause I have been busy with a wedding all weekend, but regardless the start etc is fine and no smoke.

I'd love any and all ideas.
 
#7
Oh and Adam, I am using Fel Pro 9333pt1 head gaskets. Heads are milled E7s and the intake is a tubular GT40.

Today is the first chance I will have had since Friday to take a look at the car. Still haven't even taken a look at the dipstick, but I will do that and maybe check the torque on the head bolts.

To recap for those who are trying to help my figure this out:
1. Coolant/water spews out the overflow when it was pulled hard on the dyno.
2. White smoke does not blow out the exhaust.
3. The car does not overheat.
4. The spewed water has a brown tinge to it, but it would make total sense that its rustyness in the coolant system as the car sat for 3 years. Very light brown.
5. It starts right up, idles awesome, revs good no leaks or anything.
6. I havent tested it yet, but it seems like you could drive the car around without getting on it and it would act totally normal.

That's all I have for now. Thanks guys.

Btw, if any of you in Michigan or even close to Michigan need your car tuned I HIGHLY recommend going to Alternative Auto and seeing Lidio. He really knows his stuff and is out to make a strong yet safe tune and really cares about the customer. He does not accept anything other than perfect stock like driveability even in a high powered car. Not to mention he tunes in open loop, which is awesome and which no other tuner in the whole area will do or even knows how to do. I drove 3 hours to see him and it was very worth it.
 
#8
Ok update, even though no one is responding.:shrug:
I drove it for about 15 minutes a couple hours ago and it drove great. I only got on it about 2/3 throttle cause I was nervous, but it drove really good. So a few minutes ago I drove it again and almost floored it in first and shifted to second and it sputtered hard and died. I tried to restart it and it just turned. So I pumped the throttle and got it going and limped it home. Luckily I was close as I made sure to stay near home.

Got home and opened the hood and no coolant had blown out. I started it again, with gas, and it finally started to smoke white out the exhaust. So I guess the head gasket finally totally blew. Idk. It's just confusing as to why it blew. After the issues on the dyno Lidio asked us numerous times if we had beaten on it before the tune (as I would be suspicious of if I were him too) but we hadn't at all. Very frustrating.

So I am still wondering about two things. First of all, why it blew since they were just replaced making me worried that it will just happen again. Second, why was the coolant blowing out the over flow during the tune.

Still looking for help if any of the gurus want to lend a hand. :)
 
#14
You got studs or bolts?


Maybe try to get a set of aluminum heads? arent those better than iron?



I feel bad for you man, i know how long you've been trying to get it on the road. I hope you can figure out a plan to fix it!
 
#15
nmcgrawj said:
You got studs or bolts?


Maybe try to get a set of aluminum heads? arent those better than iron?



I feel bad for you man, i know how long you've been trying to get it on the road. I hope you can figure out a plan to fix it!
Click to expand...

I have ARP head bolts. Lidio actually said he recommends stock head bolts over ARPs. He said he has been using them for years and years and they are the best bet.

If I was made of money I would get some nice new heads and new head gaskets and go from there, but that is not even an option.

Yeah I do feel pretty bad about it. It has been headache after headache and I am just afraid there is something wrong that we haven't even thought of yet. And yeah its been forever. I started this whole project exactly 3 years ago next week.

It just seems there is a reoccuring problem in one way or another. On the way home from the St. Ignace car show 3 years ago right before I took it apart it started overheating real bad. It look like it was leaking from the radiator, but idk. Then after the car was finished last August right before my first scheduled tune it started overheating like mad and the oil pan was a big milkshake. So the head gaskets were replaced about a month ago and now this crap is happening. Keep in mind the car was never beatin on before being tuned. I'm just really worried that we are gonna replace the HGs again and something is still gonna go wrong.

Still trying to figure out what the coolant spewing was all about. I topped off the coolant today and ran the car for about 10 minutes to see if the coolant would drop. At 150 it hadn't eaten any. At 150 it also went from idling smoothly to going up and down in idle along with a tiny bit of smoke but barely any. The plugs were fairly dark.
 
#17
some people would love to have a turbo. not me. i've had enough of boost related headaches

i had a KB 1700 for a while and had nothing but trouble with it. within six months of nothing but issues, it ended up breaking something internal (probably a ring) and was burning and leaking oil like crazy. later, i found out that a seal had given way and was letting unmetered air in.

that was when i decided to stay na and go big instead. now i have no worries about breaking anything or blowing a HG

but that's just me.

good luck with it and keep us posted
 
#20
Black Stampede said:
I have ARP head bolts. Lidio actually said he recommends stock head bolts over ARPs. He said he has been using them for years and years and they are the best bet.
Click to expand...

I don't see the logic there, but maybe Lido knows something I don't. Stock bolts are torque to yield. They are built to stretch, which increases the chance of lifting the head.

I don't think using aluminum heads is going to make that big of a difference. I think using the head studs will make a bigger difference.

Kurt
 
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