For all of you handling suspension gurus..

ES Stangin · Nov 10, 2005

I am going to be working on the suspension this winter. I was thinking about getting the following:

- Mach Struts/shocks
- Ford C springs
- 03-04 Cobra A-Arms
- Steeda steel LCAs

I'd like to keep by budget around $700 for everything.. would my money be better spent on something better? My suspension is pretty worn but I'd rather not skimp on handling. I do auto-x the car and I'd like to be competitive in my class but I keep losing to a Mach I with race tires and a steeda 5-link rear end..

fawcett · Nov 11, 2005

Man, I'd like to know the answers to this as well. I really would like to have my car pull like 1g+ on a skid pad but I have no idea what parts are needed for that and how much money its going to take. to those suspension gurus out there how what kind of #'s would we see with his suggested setup? What is really needed to pull over 1g?
-fawcett

LoudToy958 · Nov 11, 2005

Look through this thread to start. After you dig through here, I might have some more time to get a little indepth.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=590409

Car Nut · Nov 11, 2005

Get the Cobra control arms for sure. With my setup, it made a big difference. The ride is quite nice with the Race springs.

V8SHME8 · Nov 11, 2005

ES Stangin said:
I am going to be working on the suspension this winter. I was thinking about getting the following:

- Mach Struts/shocks
- Ford C springs
- 03-04 Cobra A-Arms
- Steeda steel LCAs

I'd like to keep by budget around $700 for everything.. would my money be better spent on something better? My suspension is pretty worn but I'd rather not skimp on handling. I do auto-x the car and I'd like to be competitive in my class but I keep losing to a Mach I with race tires and a steeda 5-link rear end..

Well, first off that Mach 1 should not be in your class. What class are you trying to be competitive in? SFCs will bump you into the most extreme category if you are running SCCA, but that should be the first mod to mustangs. I would buy MM/Griggs/EVM lcas, the Bullitt suspension package, poly bushings front control arm bushings, X2 ball joints, and MM caster camber plates. Bolt on subframes totally blow ass but they will keep you class legal.

95cobradude · Nov 11, 2005

whats the difference between the 03 cobra front control arms and the arms on a 95.

ES Stangin · Nov 11, 2005

Well, first off that Mach 1 should not be in your class. What class are you trying to be competitive in?

The Mach I and I both run in ESP. I read the SCCA solo II rulebook briefly and didnt see anything that should put him out of ESP, unless I missed something.

I would buy MM/Griggs/EVM lcas, the Bullitt suspension package, poly bushings front control arm bushings, X2 ball joints, and MM caster camber plates.

So instead of the Cobra arms I should just use some poly bushings? I did read one of your posts about the cobra arms not being worth it.

I found the bullitt/mach struts and shocks on ebay for $180.. I know they dont include springs/swaybars like the kit but is would the swaybars really make that much of a difference? Also, I know I should get subframes but I didnt want to get bumped in SM..

95cobradude · Nov 11, 2005

i am just using the stock front lower control arms with the polyurethane bushings, whats the deal with the 03 cobra arms, aren't they the same?

V8SHME8 · Nov 11, 2005

ES Stangin said:
The Mach I and I both run in ESP. I read the SCCA solo II rulebook briefly and didnt see anything that should put him out of ESP, unless I missed something.

Adding an additional suspension link like a torque arm or third link bump you into the most extreme category because SCCA is retarded and only wants 84 VW Rabits to be competitive. I am fairly sure that adding a fifth link does the same. Either way that Steeda crap will break on him soon enough and you will not need to worry about him.

ES Stangin said:
So instead of the Cobra arms I should just use some poly bushings? I did read one of your posts about the cobra arms not being worth it.

They are not really worth it. The difference is they have a notch to allow more tire clearance, and they have a different ball joint. I would just get bushings and X2 ball joints.

ES Stangin said:
I found the bullitt/mach struts and shocks on ebay for $180.. I know they dont include springs/swaybars like the kit but is would the swaybars really make that much of a difference? Also, I know I should get subframes but I didnt want to get bumped in SM..

Well, you can get the Mach 1 bolt on subframe connectors which usually sell for a steal at like 15 bucks. It should be noted that the Mach 1's and Bullitts do not have the same struts. They are both Tokicos but the Bullitts are valved more aggressively to deal with the increased 1/4 inch drop they have over the Mach 1 springs. I would not care about the sway bars though although they are tubular on the Bullitts and so it is a weight mod. The car truthfully has too much sway bar anyway when you run the right spring rate.

Car Nut · Nov 11, 2005

The 03 Cobra front control arms have stiffer bushings and they will last much longer than the stockers. It usually costs as much to replace the stock bushings or pretty close. Never heard anything negative about the Cobra arms.

Subframes made a big difference on my car. It suddenly felt connected and more controllable in the turns. However, nothing made a difference like my H&R springs and Bilsteins. My springs have a high spring rate in the front at like 750/850, so brake dive and body roll are nearly gone. Now that I have proper seats, very tight turns and high speed turns do not shift me at all.

Subframes, pretty high spring rates, great shocks/struts, and other quality suspension pieces that work well together will give you a big advantage. I recommend that you choose something high quality and high performance and then add the pieces as you can afford them.

Good luck.

95cobradude · Nov 11, 2005

i just used my stock control arms with polyurethane bushings and x2 ball joints, thats all u need 2 do.

95COBRA241 · Nov 11, 2005

ES Stangin said:
I did read one of your posts about the cobra arms not being worth it.

Ithink they were worth it. For $155.00 shipped I got new control arms withe new bushings and new ball joints. New ball joints alone are about $100.00 from Steeda plus the labor to press them and new bushings in will exceed $155.00.

ES Stangin · Nov 11, 2005

I havent been able to find the a-arms for under $180ish..

Would it be better overall to just wait and get the H&R race/Bilstein HD combo to build a better base on or would the bullitt set-up work well enough?

Thanks everyone for the help so far!

(I just found out that the Mach will be in SM next season.. I guess I'll be competing against myself.. lol)

mytight95 · Nov 12, 2005

95COBRA241 said:
Ithink they were worth it. For $155.00 shipped I got new control arms withe new bushings and new ball joints. New ball joints alone are about $100.00 from Steeda plus the labor to press them and new bushings in will exceed $155.00.

are the balljoints in the new arms the raised variety like steeda's x2's. or are they just the regular kind........i think the control arms would be great for me, my 9" rims in the front kill really tight turning.

jason

V8SHME8 · Nov 12, 2005

The reason people think they are good is because they put them in to replace 150k mile suspension where even a totally stock replacement would feel better. The ball joints not taller than stock so there is no incentive to get them. They are supposed to have lower resistance but I doubt you could tell a difference between new stock and 03 cobra ball joints.

6-205-BL 29.99 for bushings and 100 for the ball joints is 50 bucks cheaper than the 180. Of course I have a press so I do my own labor.

Car Nut · Nov 12, 2005

ES Stangin said:
Would it be better overall to just wait and get the H&R race/Bilstein HD combo to build a better base on or would the bullitt set-up work well enough?

The Bullitt setup will work better than stock. The Bullitt setup won't compare at all to the H&R/Bilstein combo. Ride in a Mach1 or a Bullitt and you'll see that the suspension is better than stock, but with a great deal of brake dive and motion in the corners. Take a ride in a stang with the H&R/Bilstein combo and you won't believe how flat a stang can be in the turns and almost no brake dive. Bullitt setup vs. the H&R/Bilstein combo is like the proverbial apples vs. oranges comparison.

I borrowed a 2003 Mach 1 for 7 months and loved the power it had over my 94 GT. The Mach1 has a lot of benefits over my car, but it didn't compare to my car with the stuff in my sig (which came a few months later). My father-in-law owns the Mach 1, so when I gave it back I vowed to create a suspension that would outshine his big time. I've succeeded and I'm not finished yet. I'm sure someone (or many) could drive a Mach1 and handle that car better than me, however, my car will look a lot prettier and flatter going through turns.

I've spent a lot of money already and have over $1K to go. Keep in mind this is all being done over the course of 2 years and a couple months. I never thought it would happen until I started adding stuff.

fawcett · Nov 12, 2005

So if i got the new Griggs sla kit would that allow my car to pull over 1g? What about the MM kits? Its important to me to pull over 1g. I cant really explain it, but its one thing I have to have my car do right. If I can do that with a less expensive suspension package, or one pieced together from various companies please tell me what I need to buy. I want a G-Machine, I even plan on putting my 13in Brembos in the back (with at line locker of course) and some larger Brembos up front. My car will do 1g+, stop on a dime, and run 12's or better. All I need is to not get fired from my job, not get kicked out of my house, and a little bit of time.
Thanks
-fawcett

1995gts frpp 340bhp 302, gt40x's, e-cam, track heat with spacer. aeromotive frp set at 39psi, 24 lbs, 190fuel pump, prom80, 65mm frpp tb, prom ceramic intake, fluidyne radiator (new), d&d viper spec t56, mgw shifter (new and kind of nice but i missed 2 shifts with it at the track! prob wouldnt have if i waited and just used the stocker), alum ds, 3.73's, brembos all around, cobra r's, saleen heat extractor hood, projector head lights (worst money spent)

fawcett · Nov 12, 2005

ps, i know how much tires come into play with a cars handling characteristics. So my questions pertain to a car wearing either 17in cobra r's (which i have now) or with 18in Saleen rims. front sized at 17x9 or 18x9 and rear sized at 17x10.5 or 18x10.5. honestly i dont know what sized tires would be on the saleens. i dont have them yet but i will. what i am currently running for tires size in at 255x30?x17 front ant 275x30?x17 rear on the cobra r's (could be x40's, its been a while since ive had her damn ignition system! its all new and all mallory now though!)
-fawcett

Car Nut · Nov 13, 2005

I believe that getting to 1g is something fairly involved like stated above. A new 2006 Z06 averages 1.05g according to most tests. Stock stangs aren't close. If you want to hang at 1g or more, your gonna need a full suspension upgrade. Springs, shocks, and struts just won't be enough.

Check out MMs article on their Road & Track Kit. They put this kit on a Fox mustang and it bested all but two cars that Motor Trend had ever tested a few years ago in their standard slolam test. That's pretty impressive.

On the tire scene: Some say that 17x10.5s with 315s aren't good for handling and others say it is great. I think this larger size nearly mimics what is going on with newer great handling cars. I plan on having over 350rwhp in a couple years, so 315s should be a nice benefit. Before I do anything, I'm gonna ask around and find a few owners with this setup to ride along and get further information. Will also talk to MM as well.

Lastly, anyone can benefit from performance driving schools and books. I can't wait to learn how to get the most out of my setup when I'm done. Don't ever want to get caught with a great suspension and not knowing how to use it properly.

fiveo'cobra · Nov 13, 2005

The guys above me have covered most of the bases except one. Since you autox/road race, you are going to want a very high spring rate or you will be scraping your fenders with your tires. This is what my car is doing when i run it hard through the turns and i am switching springs this christmas.

My combo is:
Eibach sportlines
KYB shock/struts
Hotchkis lower control arms
Steeda sway bars
Poly A-arm bushings
Poly steering rack busings
D&D 4 bolt CC plates
Full length SFC's with cross braces.

The body roll in my car is basically non-existant except for the occasional play in the rear end since i don't have a panhard bar, but the spring rate is killing me. You will want to get something with a 700lb+ spring rate for the front tires to keep from rubbing. Your drop may not be as low as mine but C-springs from what i've heard are around a 2 inch drop and you will rub with those. Some Steeda race springs or some H&R race springs will do the trick.

So to sum up, remember, the lower you go, the higher the spring rate you want.

For all of you handling suspension gurus..

ES Stangin

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