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Ford 351W Vs. Buick 350?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nitequill
  • Start date Start date Dec 8, 2006
N

nitequill

New Member
Sep 2, 2005
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Los Angeles
Dec 8, 2006
#1
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #1
Hey Guys; im here at work with some buick grease monkeys and everyday we battle on my 65 mustang with its 351W beating there 65 and 70 buick skylarks with a 350. I would just head out to the track and put these guys to the test but my stang is still in the shop getting the engine rebuilt and it will be a while before i can really punch it like i would like to... one of the guys sent me the article below to strike fear into my heart so now im turning to my fellow ford comrades to be enlighten on the subject.


One of the Most Underestimated Engines

The 350 Buick engine is probably one of the most underestimated engines, even by Buick people. These engines are well designed, they are built strong, not overbuilt. They are also the lightest of the "Small Block" engines, weighing 100lbs. less than a SBC. These engine have a super long stroke, as far as I can find, its the longest stroke of all the small blocks, by a good margin too. The bore size does suffer a little bit from this but torque makes horsepower and long strokes make torque. A chevy or ford has to wind up to a much higher rpm to come even remotely close to the torque that the Buick 350 puts out at 3200 rpm. I have a low compression 350 with a Poston 114 cam and an 800 cfm q-jet. With no posi I can get into the 14's, that's with a stock engine, no headers, stock intake, just a cam and a carb. It really doesn't take much to make these little engines go, 13's are fairly easily obtainable, the engine will make the power, but its really hard to keep the high torque from spinning the tires! (throw a posi on my setup and 14.5's easy). There are no real aftermarket 350 heads, BUT the stock heads do have large intake ports and a straight exhaust port, there is also plenty of metal you can take out for more flow. A good high power build for this engine would be 10:1 compression pistons, ported heads, Aluminum intake, Headers, and a good cam (Poston 114 is good, but there are many out there, Jim Burek can help on which one to pick).

I have heard of these engines running 12's with not too extreme setups. Maybe one day mine will, or Yours!
 

302 coupe

Founding Member
Mar 2, 2000
1,952
3
36
Macon, Ga.
Dec 8, 2006
#2
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #2
if they could find a buick that weighed as little as a mustang, it might be a contest. Nothing wrong with a buick 350, but who cares, nobody ever said there was anything wrong with them. I think your buddies just want some attention. A 351 in an early mustang will make buick 350 in any buick car, feel not-so special.
 
S

Sicarius428

Active Member
Jan 6, 2004
2,085
5
49
Dec 8, 2006
#3
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #3
I was about to say that, whatever the 350 buick lacks in engine weight it more than makes up in car weight. Any American V8 can be well built but its the aftermarket that makes a potentially good engine a great engine, which the 351 has. If they were getting 100 lbs comparison from a full cast iron small block, some aluminium heads, intake and some headers should negate any of that. The early 351s are strong motors, probably stronger than the 350s in any case. The 351 in your light as a feather 65 should not have any problem with any 350 buick. Just make sure you get some good traction is all. I just reread about them gloating about getting 14.5 with posi and an 800cfm carb(bit overcarbed imo)... ya nothing special... stock 5.0 would take care of them.
Kevin
 
S

Sicarius428

Active Member
Jan 6, 2004
2,085
5
49
Dec 8, 2006
#4
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #4
double post. sorry
 

Max Power

Active Member
Jul 31, 2003
1,774
1
36
St Paul
Dec 8, 2006
#5
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #5
Think Buick Apollo!
 
D

D.Hearne

New Member
Sep 29, 2000
11,730
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south louisiana
Dec 8, 2006
#6
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #6
It wasn't till the advent of aftermarket heads came out that made the 351W competetive against any other 350 cube engine, that includes all the various GM 350's. Back in the 70's and early 80's, the 351W was just a weak kneed sister to the 351C. Nobody wanted them.
 
M

mikemustang289

Member
Jan 12, 2006
224
0
16
mesa, az
Dec 9, 2006
#7
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #7
If his buick 350 is mostly stock, it will be a turd....My dad owns a 71 skylark with a buick (not chevy) 350 and I have driven it a lot. First of all, it's a 3600 pound car, through an automatic trans and a pegleg rear with something like 2.56 gears.

Sure, if he's built it all up then it might be fast, but I don't see anything special about them in stock form. My dad's car runs about High 15's and it has the basic mods, 4bbl carb, stage 1 intake, dual exhaust (stock manifolds) and his car has all the GSX options which includes a ram air hood/air cleaner.

The car is so jokingly slow for what it is that I raced my buddy in his beater ass dodge stealth and I barely, and I mean barely, like one car length, beat him.
 
M

mo'factor

Member
Jul 29, 2006
58
0
6
Dec 9, 2006
#8
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #8
351

You know what's better about my 351 than a buick 350? It's Mine!!!
 
B

bnickel

Founding Member
Aug 21, 2002
5,640
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77
lubbock, texas
Dec 9, 2006
#9
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #9
a bone stock 351 4v 69 mach 1 with 3.25 gears can easily pull down low to mid 14 second timeslips. my old 70 cougar with a bone stock 351-2v and edelbrock performer intake with 600 cfm carter carb would get low 15's to high 14's quite regularly and that was with a 3.00 gear. the 71 skylark with a stock 350 will be no competition for a 351 in a 65-66 stang, the 65 skylark doesn't weigh quite as much the 71 does though so it may be a little closer race with that one but i'd say you should pull him.

the only thing about the buick 350 is that it is very hard to tell betweeen a buick 455 externally so you have to make sure they aren't blowing smoke up your butt. a 455 70 or 71 skylark is a force to be reckoned with even in stock trim.
 
D

danny clemens

Member
May 4, 2005
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16
Dec 9, 2006
#10
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #10
What are you having done to your 351 while having it rebuilt? Just break it in and then break them.
 

brianj5600

Active Member
Sep 19, 2003
1,964
2
39
Middle TN
Dec 9, 2006
#11
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #11
D.Hearne said:
It wasn't till the advent of aftermarket heads came out that made the 351W competetive against any other 350 cube engine, that includes all the various GM 350's. Back in the 70's and early 80's, the 351W was just a weak kneed sister to the 351C. Nobody wanted them.
Click to expand...

Which is why I sold my big block Chevelle and bought a MustangII in the '80s. Everyone at the street races was afraid of a BBC even though it only ran 13's. My weak kneed step sister MII ran mid 11's on motor and mid 10's on the hose with a 306", C9 351w headed motor. The same people that wanted me to spot them with the Chevelle offered to spot my inferior windsor headed Ford.
 
D

D.Hearne

New Member
Sep 29, 2000
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south louisiana
Dec 9, 2006
#12
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #12
Betcha had a lot more traction than the big block Chevelle had too. Been there done that with my big block Stang. Only car ever beat it off the line was a 340 Duster. The 427 burned down the rear rubber while the Duster left it sitting........ You put a big block in the Stang II it would have been a closer match. You can brag all you want on the Windsor but it doesn't change the fact that it's popularity now didn't come into being untill the aftermarket kicked in with improved heads. I was there in the 70's and remember people's aversions to them in favor of the Clevelands.
 

Max Power

Active Member
Jul 31, 2003
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St Paul
Dec 9, 2006
#13
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #13
All windsor Fords got schooled by the competition until good heads came along. I always settled for being a little slower because I liked Ford styling much better.

Road tests by magazines back in the day had 351w, auto, 3.25 geared Machs at 15.0 flat. Granted, that was with crappy tires.
 
B

bnickel

Founding Member
Aug 21, 2002
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77
lubbock, texas
Dec 9, 2006
#14
  • Dec 9, 2006
  • #14
Max Power said:
All windsor Fords got schooled by the competition until good heads came along. I always settled for being a little slower because I liked Ford styling much better.

Road tests by magazines back in the day had 351w, auto, 3.25 geared Machs at 15.0 flat. Granted, that was with crappy tires.
Click to expand...


i've seen road tests that had them in the mid 14's. 14.6, 14.7 seemed to be the average of what i saw, but then again i haven't seen more than 4 or 5
 

brianj5600

Active Member
Sep 19, 2003
1,964
2
39
Middle TN
Dec 10, 2006
#15
  • Dec 10, 2006
  • #15
My point was that they are not boat anchors. They are down on the pecking order list, but with the right combo, they can put up some pretty good numbers. Another car running around was a Maverick with a 306 and unported 351w heads and hyd cam that ran low 13's on motor and low 11's on a 175 plate. His car was set up to run on the bottle, but with a looser TC and a little more gear it would have been solidly in the 12's on motor.
 
D

D.Hearne

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Sep 29, 2000
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south louisiana
Dec 10, 2006
#16
  • Dec 10, 2006
  • #16
Never said the Windsor was a boat anchor, just pointing out the truth about their history. It started out as a passenger car/pickup truck engine, not a Hi-po mill, that was the Cleveland's reason for being.
 

Loup-garou

Founding Member
Aug 11, 2001
337
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New Orleans, LA
Dec 10, 2006
#17
  • Dec 10, 2006
  • #17
As others have mentioned, the Buick 350 is a decent enough engine, but a Skylark is at a large weight disadvantage when compared with a V-8 Mustang. My cousin had a thing for Buicks - I helped him spin wrenches on a '67 Riviera and a '72 Skylark GS 455. That 455 was warmed-up to '70 Stage 1 specs and built a reputation really quickly among the local street racers. After a few months, he had a tough time finding a challenger.

As I recall, there's not a lot of visual difference between the various versions of the Buick V-8. Be certain they don't slip a 455 in there with 350 decals on the air cleaner lid.
 
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