Forum Improvement

blksn955.o · Jun 3, 2007

putting Gradys webpage attached/edited within the first page someplace (even added to the current tweecer manual faq), since he already has screenshots and some splain'in about them.

tjh566 · Jun 3, 2007

urban96 said:
i just bought a book about mustang tuning and all that jazz. been contemplating a tweecer now for a while. downloaded the software and played around with it a bit and realized there was a TON of options in there that can be changed, but not knowing a whole lot about tuning most changes will most likely be useless.

screenshots in a FAQ/basics thread would be most beneficial IMO

Out of all those options Ive used very few, Alot of the scalars Ive changed a little to suit what I wanted, but other than that, Ive just messed with the Fuel and spark tables mainly, adjusted injector offset table and the idle air table and thats about it. And ive got this thing running pretty sweet. When I first started self tuning I knew nothing about it, just read everything on the internet I could then finally came across the tweecer r/t used bought it and have loved it ever since I got it. Best mod Ive ever done imo.

final5-0 · Jun 3, 2007

OK Guys

Two Questions I would like to see answered

First one is ...........

If we did make info more organized with specific titles, subject, etc ............

Does everybody think that would make things a little bit better
or
Would that make a pretty noticeable difference

Second one is .............

I've also been thinking about tuning basics in general.
This would be applicable no matter if talking about using Tweecer, SCT,
or PMS interfaces and others as well.

You know ... topics like ..........

na sbf's like so much spark, fuel, etc
blown sbf's like ......
sbf's with juice like .....

I bring up this second Question bacause so many peeps have the idea its
the tuning interface software that requires an investment of time to
become a proficient self tuner when it really is about the pcm and how the
car responds to more/less fuel and spark.

Thoughts ... Questions ... Comments ............. anyone and everyone

Grady

blksn955.o · Jun 3, 2007

For me the well organized thing mainly would be to 100% put inplace a search first rule/mentality for those same basic questions that pop up. Of course with the kindness and calm tone we have here already...no BASHING, I think of it more like a motivator like "ohh yeah I need to do some research and learn" as this is part of self tuning.

I agree on the basics for gen. targets per type of setup, if we started a gen. "basic NA, basic N2O, basic Boost" type thread and give diff. viewpoints of what numbers to go for...then let people in that thread to add input on what they have found to work along with adding what tuning system they are working with....after a few replies it would make a good basic faq. It might kill two birds with one stone. I bet we could even copy and past a good bit of info together from old posts that we search to make the faq even better.

I think one thing we can all barrow from the tweecer forums is the either put what your tuning with in your sig or post it in the thread.

HISSIN50 · Jun 3, 2007

vristang said:
Hey guys!

In the 5.0 Tech section Daggar started a 'Tech Thread Index'
which has worked out fairly well.
This one sticky has links to all the best tech threads the forum has to offer.

In my opinion, it worked well...
Maybe others will disagree?

jason

EDIT:
Here is a link to the thread I am talking about...
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=643651

tjh566 said:
I agree, stuff is at times hard to find, I have An Idea, Start a sticky with links to threads with good Info, Inside the sticky have it layed out nice with specific topics in bold and links to threads with good information about those topics under the right title.

Imo, this would be the best way to do it, If we could just get a volunteer to go thru all the old threads and pick out the good ones and sort everything out. Alot of good information is in old threads just needs to be found. Granted this will be a painfully long process and take up alot of time but it would really make this tuning forum one of the best places to find information period.

I would, but being I am still kinda noobish at this tuning stuff and dont have alot of extra time at all, wouldnt be very practicle for me to attempt it.

Jason's idea was what I immediately thought of when Grady brought up this great premise. And TJH reinforced the idea of how to culminate the Sticky, doing so as Grady outlined. Set up a number of 'master threads', each for the given topic.
So you have a tip-in retard thread, a fan setting thread (seems common), Open loop idling thread, and so on (whatever it is you guys use). Let these evolve in the forum, or just immediately pin the hyperlinks into the Master Sticky so folks dont keep making new threads (as Jrichker's did with his idle surge sticky. That thing is now umpteen pages long, as folks go there first or get sent there in short order if they try to post a thread.

One step further:
In each sticky topic (exempli gratia: tip-in retard), someone could even rehash the info (like JRichker did in the idle surge sticky. His opening post is organic, being periodically updated as people post more thoughts). That'd be optional but might be nice.

I'd offer to assist if I knew anything about tuning.

final5-0 · Jun 4, 2007

blksn955.o said:
For me the well organized thing mainly would be to 100% put inplace a search first rule/mentality for those same basic questions that pop up. Of course with the kindness and calm tone we have here already...no BASHING, I think of it more like a motivator like "ohh yeah I need to do some research and learn" as this is part of self tuning.

I agree on the basics for gen. targets per type of setup, if we started a gen. "basic NA, basic N2O, basic Boost" type thread and give diff. viewpoints of what numbers to go for...then let people in that thread to add input on what they have found to work along with adding what tuning system they are working with....after a few replies it would make a good basic faq. It might kill two birds with one stone. I bet we could even copy and past a good bit of info together from old posts that we search to make the faq even better.

I think one thing we can all barrow from the tweecer forums is the either put what your tuning with in your sig or post it in the thread.

I understand about the copy/paste thing from old threads. My idea has been to
do just that many times in the past but I could not always find it.

How about a format of something like this

A new thread with the title of ........ Shift Retard

I found a recent thread where it was correctly named and explained
so the copy and paste thing could be used for that :Word:

The fix could be added after that for a first post that would look like ..........

05-31-07, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green GT View Post
What exactly is the shift retard? Does it pull timing when you first shift into a gear?

This is one of those things that is a bit misunderstood

Peeps call it a Shift Retard when it really is ......
A retarding of spark when the throttle is tipped in

In the Tweecer software it is a scalar that is described as ..............
spark_min_for_tip-in_retard

btw ... The default value is 5 degrees

What happens is if you are at a light load, slight throttle opening condition
like a low speed cruise in say 3rd gear and then ... tip-in ... the throttle
to a WOT condition ... you will see a retard of spark to 5 degrees for
about 1/2 of a second.

So you see ... shifting is NOT necessary for the event to happen
although
Shifting can be involved as it happens too

Here is an example of how it hurts performance in an untuned Stang

Consider the fact the spark table is calling for 25 degrees at WOT
and
Most peeps keep the dizzy above stock value at say 4 degrees more

You are in second at WOT and do a quick shift to third and back to WOT

You were in second with a total spark advance of 25+4 for 29 total

You now gotta go through a time interval of about 1/2 of a second
with your spark reduced to 5 degrees right after you get back on
the skinny pedal before you return to your normal 29 degrees of
total advance under WOT conditions.

Hope that helps you to see it a bit more clearly

Grady

The Fix ............

Match the scalar value to the value you have chosen as the total amount
of spark in the greatest load row at maximum rpm in the base spark table.

Since the values match ... there is no reduction of spark at WOT tip in

NOTE This would be the end of the first post in the thread.
Of course, others could add more info or ask questions if they
felt they needed more clarification.

The only thing I don't like is the thread title

It is kinda like continuing to spread the misinformation with the title
but
If we made the title with the correct scalar name ...........

Some might not know what it means
and
Other interfaces like PMS or SCT might call it by a different name

We don't want this forum to be Tweecer exclusive ... as I see it

Anyway ... is something along these lines .......

good
not so good
25% good but you got a better idea for the other 75%

I'm not trying to be forceful with my ideas
but
Just trying to get something started

I really do want everybody to give input
so
We can end up with a good format

One that will benefit those who share and those who seek info

Grady

Blackened302 · Jun 4, 2007

^^^that is perfect, Grady!

the topic/question is clear, it explains it well, and offers a solution describing the exact scalars that need to be modified and what to modify it to.

awesome!

gcomfx.com · Jun 4, 2007

How about a thread to recommend old threads for good tech. Then MOVE the images in those threads to stangnet, so we never have to worry about the hotlinked images disappearing.

final5-0 · Jun 4, 2007

gcomfx.com said:
How about a thread to recommend old threads for good tech. Then MOVE the images in those threads to stangnet, so we never have to worry about the hotlinked images disappearing.

Paul

I can only speak for myself but

I have always preferred to get my info within the same thread where a
discussion is taking place rather than using a provided link
to go off to some place else.

Of course ... if the info is extensive with a lot of images and the like ......
that is not always feasible.

Are you saying what I did several posts up where the info was
copied and pasted from an older thread to this forum is not what
you are talking about

I wanna be completely clear about your idea Paul

Grady

gcomfx.com · Jun 4, 2007

Right, same idea. Just have a designated place where people can recommend what is added. Say they find a good write up in the archives or searches. No point in ONE person being responsible for this. We can all help at our leisure.

Copy and pasting the text is fine. But just pasting the picture links won't work. Over time we will lose the images. I'm guilty of forgetting when or better yet where I posted images to help someone. Then a year later I cleaned up my web server for space. Sure enough, I get an email or PM from someone that wants help from a year old thread, and I killed the images.

Timeless wanted to know what could help. The moderator or trusted person for the organizing really needs a place to move and relink the images to for this to work long term.

final5-0 · Jun 4, 2007

OK Paul

Thanks for the details and I understand

You wanna steal the images
and
Host them some place else

I just had to say it like that ... cause ... We all do it

I've always used my personal site to host the pics I put up for you guys
but I think I've seen SN will host pics.

Should we do it that way

Also .............

I would not think other members would mind when we use
their original question as the start of a thread that will surely
become immortal

Good Ideas

Our end result will be better if all throw in their input here

Don't anybody feel they gotta just stand on the side line
or
Sit on the bench

Get involved here ... right now
for a better more user friendly 94-95 tuning forum :Word:

Grady

gcomfx.com · Jun 4, 2007

final5-0 said:
You wanna steal the images
and
Host them some place else

I've always used my personal site to host the pics I put up for you guys
but I think I've seen SN will host pics.

Should we do it that way

If they offered them up to stangnet users the first time. I consider them fair game. It's public access then. Plus I would consider it flattering in a way.

final5-0 said:
Also .............

I would not think other members would mind when we use
their original question as the start of a thread that will surely
become immortal

Good Ideas Grady

Just please don't use some of the titles. "I need help, what is this, is it broke, and btw how much is it worth if I try to sell it?"

timeless2 · Jun 4, 2007

gcomfx.com said:
Timeless wanted to know what could help. The moderator or trusted person for the organizing really needs a place to move and relink the images to for this to work long term.

This isn't something out of the question. Storage is relatively cheap, and if this means a more reliable solution that might attract more users to this already powerful community, then it's most likely a positive benefit compared to what it costs to host the images.

Just let me know...

urban96 · Jun 4, 2007

i like the idea of also breaking down the FAQ into:

N/A Tuning

Supercharged Tuning

Nitrous Tuning

and having what specific things that make the most impact. Suggested Vaules for each. How to get a stable idle with a cam. How to build a MAF flowsheet. How to adjust for larger injectors.

I wish i had a tweecer for my 95 so i could mess with it.

final5-0 · Jun 4, 2007

Ok ... As I see it ...

We are considering hosting charts, graphs, and the like on SN if one sees
the need to include them with text.

We are considering moving charts, graphs, and the like to SN when we
use info from past threads to allow us to be in control of the data.

That all sounds good to me

Again ... Its not like we are gonna be doing cutting edge stuff
because
The info peeps ask about has been covered many times before here
and on other sites as well.

We are just trying to be better organized with our format so the info
can be easily accessed by other members at a later point in time.

So far ... Do ya'll think we are going in the right direction

I do have just a thought or two more
but
First ... Lets see if most members find this agreeable so far

Grady

blksn955.o · Jun 4, 2007

Too bad we cannot make a thread with a tab setup...like a thread that has really a general/help thread broken down into MAF, Inj., Load, spark, idle. It would save a ton of room up top with a tab'd faq. Then have 3 specific tune threads one for N2O, Boost and N/A.

That way your not searching threw pages and pages of examples, and posts to find one reply then go threw several pages to find another example or more detail. That is the only thing I hate about searching the tons of dead space that can pop up in a damn good post.

final5-0 · Jun 4, 2007

blksn955.o said:
That way your not searching threw pages and pages of examples, and posts to find one reply then go threw several pages to find another example or more detail. That is the only thing I hate about searching the tons of dead space that can pop up in a damn good post.

Well ... I can certainly relate to that Greg

The thing that I kept thinking over and over is here
We have the wonderful ability to talk only CBAZA :Word:

IMHO ... that is a real advantage

Grady

tjh566 · Jun 4, 2007

Heres My Idea to life...kinda

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=6925905

Tell me whatca think.

vristang · Jun 4, 2007

tjh566 said:
Heres My Idea to life...kinda

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=6925905

Tell me whatca think.

I like that setup...
Organized, concise, and easy to scan through.

Not that you guys should care what I think, but I am taking notes on what you do here...
Hopefully the Fox section will continue to grow as well...

jason

final5-0 · Jun 5, 2007

OK

If links are preferred to text & images tied to specific thread titles that
are in place for viewing without leaving the thread .......
that certainly will work

however ... Sooner or Later

We will end up with a mix when past info can't be found to link to
or
Someone wants to contribute an addition of more info
or
Someone asks a question that needs more info than past threads offer

Now ... If we follow an index like format of links only ... I see it as no
different from what the Fox guys have done.

I saw one thread that was 11 pages long on idle surging and the posts
ranged from clocking the maf to pcm resets to many other subjects.

While I can see how ALL that info is helpful ... we already got that now
somewhere in a post in one thread or another but you gotta find it.

11 pages and growing to deal with a subject

I was thinking we not only needed to be specific but concise as well
because
The guy doing research to teach himself with what we provide .....

I mean ... Are we not trying to keep this simple

Well ... lots of these tuning issues are pretty cut and dry like the
tip in spark retard we talked about
however
Some are not ... such as injector timing

Hummmmm

I'm beginning to see we are gonna need threads for specific known
facts and threads to discuss ideas, thoughts, and the like
or
I fear what will happen is we will end up with a small amount of specific
info buried in and amongst posts making up a huge thread of questions,
discussions, and who knows what

Not trying to be critical of the Fox Fellers
but
Facts are one thing
and
Hashin out stuff is another

Its my feeling we should not mix them together ... if we can help it

Grady

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