I think ( could be wrong) my issue was using filler( Bondo) on spider cracks. It was a black hood, after a couple weeks I could see a faint outline of the repair. But for a first time painting it was decent. Should of blocked more and I never got around to cut and buff. It was a single stage black like factory. Will Likely do the same on this one. It's s 88 top that was a factory 1c black that was painted white..
Paint and Body Fox Body Painting 101
- Thread starter Davedacarpainter
- Start date
Painting a black car white is just wrong. I know it's a little more high maintenance for black, but it just looks better.
Help me here, is your hood metal or fiberglass? If it's glass, you'll want to use a mud deigned for fiberglass. You also will want to take the cracks all of the way out and do a more thorough repair. Glass work takes extra steps. Let me know.
Was the cracking due to an old repair in that area? You might have to go back in and take out the old repair if that's the case.
If it's just an outline of the repair around where you sprayed primer, just color sand and buff it out, unless it's pretty severe. The outline is just the paint shrinking back. This happens to a varying extent with all paints due to the solvents required for the paint to atomize enough to spray and flow out on the surface. When those solvents leach out of the paint, the paint literally shrinks in size, and unless the repair is done just about perfect, you'll see varying degrees of this problem.
Post a picture for me, if you would.
Single stage jobs can be a beautiful thing, it won't be as durable as a base coat/clear coat finish, but jeez it can lay out beautiful when it's sprayed right. It'll also have a depth to it that can only be achieved by using a pretty high dollar clear.
@Davedacarpainter
Thank you for your contribution with the paint and body tech. Your explanation of bondo being applied directly to metal was spot on and very in depth. I've seen many debates on it but nobody broke it down in laymen terms like you have.
On another note, the thread title keeps changing and at times is misleading for new readers just coming into this thread. You don't always need to update the title to the latest post topic.
Thank you for your contribution with the paint and body tech. Your explanation of bondo being applied directly to metal was spot on and very in depth. I've seen many debates on it but nobody broke it down in laymen terms like you have.
On another note, the thread title keeps changing and at times is misleading for new readers just coming into this thread. You don't always need to update the title to the latest post topic.
Yeah, the fiberglass is cracked through there, it would have to be dug down deep and use fiberglass matting with resin to permanently fix something like that.
I finally caught on that you sold that! I'll cover the repair process for something like that during this thread.
I used a Dremel and ground out the cracks then filled with Bondo, if I could do it again I would've done the same thing but use some kind of fiberglass instead. It was only slightly visible afterwards, honestly if it was anything but black I don't think you could've seen it, it wasn't even enough to catch your finger nail, so a cut and buff might've fixed it. I'm also a rank amateur
It's good to remember that fiberglass is still glass in the end, with a little bit of glue holding it together. When it cracks, it's breaking. Just like a window, you can tape it up if you want. But it needs to be cut out and replaced in the end. Not replaced like an entire panel, just the broken area.
You will want to use the appropriate fiberglass repair as well. Bondo is too brittle for fiberglass. It will eventually let go of the FG. The repairs for FG use fiberglass resin and varying types of fiberglass itself. From actual matting to small piles of fiberglass fluff (that, by the way, you will not want to go piss right after using! Trust me on that one, unusual and long term pain there). There are cans of fiberglass that you mix just like mud, but it is not mud. It retains the flexibility of FG, bondo won't.
Looking over my car, I only have minor spots that need work. Some small chips on the edges of the door.
And one larger ( smaller than a quarter) chip. The larger chip was a small rust spot that I cleaned up and touched up but never did the body work to.
Suggestions ? The car will be black in all likelihood so I gotta go good.
And one larger ( smaller than a quarter) chip. The larger chip was a small rust spot that I cleaned up and touched up but never did the body work to.
Suggestions ? The car will be black in all likelihood so I gotta go good.
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PREPARING FOR PAINT:
Ok, you've decide to paint your car for one reason or another. It could be that you have a hood that needs to be refinished or you want to do a complete refinish. Now that you've decided to do paint what do you do next.
1. Be realistic with yourself, are you up for a complete refinish? There will be a lot of labor involved.
2. Do you want to fix those little dings in the doors and 1/4 while you're at it?
3. Do you want to do a complete tear down and restoration?
Only you can decide what you want to do.
You first need to evaluate your vehicle and what it needs to reach your goal, I'm going to assume you want to repaint your entire vehicle. Though if you just have a new hood or bumper you want to shoot, I'll cover that briefly since it has some of the same rules on a smaller scale.
Evaluation? What do I mean by evaluation? I mean understanding what your car needs to have done to reach your goal. I mean the first thing you need to do before you even decide what you want to do is to wash the living hell out of your car. Clean everything, not just the outside. Clean the engine bay, take a bucket of warm soapy water and wash the door jambs and the 1/4 and rocker jambs. Take a power washer to the undercarriage. Wash away all of the dirt.
Ok, so you have it clean now. Get it on a dry surface that you can lie down on. Get a bright flashlight and start at the right (passenger)1/4 panel. Start down on the ground and look behind the wheel where the 1/4 meets the undercarriage, hopefully you have blasted all of that dirt that builds up around the gas filler neck Is there any rust there? If so, how bad is it?
Rust will need to be looked for on every panel on your car, some of the key areas will be the 1/4's around the wheel opening. The bottoms of the door, you may just see a few bubbles in the paint there. That is rust. The fenders where they meet the rocker panel. Anywhere along the rocker panel, particularly close to the fenders. If you see rust right by the fenders, there's a decent chance it goes under the fender. Look in the engine bay, specifically in the shock tower area, look at the fame rail there. Get a small screwdriver and try to jab it into any rust you find, if it goes through into it, it is rot. Rot in the shock tower needs to be fixed. Your engines crossmember mounts there, it needs to be solid.
So, let's say you looked for rust and hallelujah, you've found none, good for you! Your not done looking yet. You need to check the floor of the cabin(the place where you sit) . It is very common to have bad rust in the passenger footwell area, I had to replace the pans in my car. You can check this two ways, the first way you don't need to remove any interior. Jack your car up and put it on jack stands. Lay down and get comfortable, use that light and small screwdriver to look over the floor boards, don't rush this, be systematic and poke and prod with the screwdriver to see if you can push through anywhere. It's best to find out and then fix it.
I had rot right next to both rear seat belts on my car as well. If you really want to hunt it down, put your car up on jack stands and pull those rear wheels off. Toward the front of the wheel tub area you will see the rear seat belt bracket, a little above the lower torque boxes (the place where your rear control arms bolt to the vehicle).
I live in Oklahoma now, I used to live in Iowa. I know you northern boys and girls will have a much greater chance of rust than we do.
I don't mean to harp so much about rust, but it is the great destroyer of older cars. It won't go away and will only get worse if you don't address it.
Good news though, it can be fixed and really isn't that tremendous of a pain in the butt to fix. Just find it!
It wouldn't hurt to use a grease marker as you evaluate your vehicle to mark the problem areas you have identified.
After looking for rust, look for dents you want to fix, anything from door dings to accident related damage that might require repairs to the panels below the outside panels. If you need to replace your bumper cover because of what seems to have been a minor accident, it's would be good to check to see how far back that damage went....will you need a new bumper reinforcement? Worse than that, need a new radiator support? Good news is that most of these panels are fairly cheap and really not all that difficult to replace.
Mark all of these with the grease marker.
What about scratches? Has your car been keyed by an irritated ex? How bad? Is it just a scratch, or did they dig in and dent wherever they scratched your vehicle?
Do you need new trim that has been damaged? Your door mouldings? Wimdow trim? Door handles?
Mark the hell out of your vehicle, everything. Do this so you can visualize what you want to do.
Is there paint that is worn out, it will take a little more to fix this than just sanding it. Is your paint peeling, has the clear coat let go and delaminated (usually you can tell this by a chalky pale to white spotty areas).
Do you want to replace the cowl trim at the back of the hood? Do you want new mirrors, new lock cylinders?
How do your headlights and taillights look? Are they yellowed out and foggy looking? Depending on how bad they are, you may be able to fix these problems without replacing. I have sanded many scabby faded headlights down and clear coated them, while not necessarily new looking, they looked damn good for a minimal cost.
Mark your car with all of these shortcomings you find. Take pictures completely around the vehicle, get a note pad and record everything you see and have marked.
Clean all of that damn righting off of your vehicle now.
Drive to the local liquor store and get at least a good strong six pack and go back home.
Pop a cold one, drink half straight away, and look at your list along with the accompanying pictures. Prepare a build list of what order you want to tackle these issues. Then take a complete day away from it, it will seem overwhelming at first. But you can do this and you'll realize you love that mustang and will come back to your list a little more invigorated.
Be realistic about your list and also be a dreamer too. Make two seperate list if you need of things you need to do, then one for things you want to do.
Always address safety issue first! If your floor has rotted around the seat belt area, you might tackle that prior to the scratch on the driver's side moulding.
This evaluation is important, you will need to get tools and supplies to repair and refinish what you find. It's best to be realistic, that way you can plan out, employ and finish the plan. Then you will be so pleased with yourself for having fixed it right.
It's late for me, I need to go to bed.
This is the beginning of your new paint job, be excited. You can paint a car, and you CAN do it properly, and it will look sweet. I'll be here to help you.
Chow for now.
Ok, you've decide to paint your car for one reason or another. It could be that you have a hood that needs to be refinished or you want to do a complete refinish. Now that you've decided to do paint what do you do next.
1. Be realistic with yourself, are you up for a complete refinish? There will be a lot of labor involved.
2. Do you want to fix those little dings in the doors and 1/4 while you're at it?
3. Do you want to do a complete tear down and restoration?
Only you can decide what you want to do.
You first need to evaluate your vehicle and what it needs to reach your goal, I'm going to assume you want to repaint your entire vehicle. Though if you just have a new hood or bumper you want to shoot, I'll cover that briefly since it has some of the same rules on a smaller scale.
Evaluation? What do I mean by evaluation? I mean understanding what your car needs to have done to reach your goal. I mean the first thing you need to do before you even decide what you want to do is to wash the living hell out of your car. Clean everything, not just the outside. Clean the engine bay, take a bucket of warm soapy water and wash the door jambs and the 1/4 and rocker jambs. Take a power washer to the undercarriage. Wash away all of the dirt.
Ok, so you have it clean now. Get it on a dry surface that you can lie down on. Get a bright flashlight and start at the right (passenger)1/4 panel. Start down on the ground and look behind the wheel where the 1/4 meets the undercarriage, hopefully you have blasted all of that dirt that builds up around the gas filler neck Is there any rust there? If so, how bad is it?
Rust will need to be looked for on every panel on your car, some of the key areas will be the 1/4's around the wheel opening. The bottoms of the door, you may just see a few bubbles in the paint there. That is rust. The fenders where they meet the rocker panel. Anywhere along the rocker panel, particularly close to the fenders. If you see rust right by the fenders, there's a decent chance it goes under the fender. Look in the engine bay, specifically in the shock tower area, look at the fame rail there. Get a small screwdriver and try to jab it into any rust you find, if it goes through into it, it is rot. Rot in the shock tower needs to be fixed. Your engines crossmember mounts there, it needs to be solid.
So, let's say you looked for rust and hallelujah, you've found none, good for you! Your not done looking yet. You need to check the floor of the cabin(the place where you sit) . It is very common to have bad rust in the passenger footwell area, I had to replace the pans in my car. You can check this two ways, the first way you don't need to remove any interior. Jack your car up and put it on jack stands. Lay down and get comfortable, use that light and small screwdriver to look over the floor boards, don't rush this, be systematic and poke and prod with the screwdriver to see if you can push through anywhere. It's best to find out and then fix it.
I had rot right next to both rear seat belts on my car as well. If you really want to hunt it down, put your car up on jack stands and pull those rear wheels off. Toward the front of the wheel tub area you will see the rear seat belt bracket, a little above the lower torque boxes (the place where your rear control arms bolt to the vehicle).
I live in Oklahoma now, I used to live in Iowa. I know you northern boys and girls will have a much greater chance of rust than we do.
I don't mean to harp so much about rust, but it is the great destroyer of older cars. It won't go away and will only get worse if you don't address it.
Good news though, it can be fixed and really isn't that tremendous of a pain in the butt to fix. Just find it!
It wouldn't hurt to use a grease marker as you evaluate your vehicle to mark the problem areas you have identified.
After looking for rust, look for dents you want to fix, anything from door dings to accident related damage that might require repairs to the panels below the outside panels. If you need to replace your bumper cover because of what seems to have been a minor accident, it's would be good to check to see how far back that damage went....will you need a new bumper reinforcement? Worse than that, need a new radiator support? Good news is that most of these panels are fairly cheap and really not all that difficult to replace.
Mark all of these with the grease marker.
What about scratches? Has your car been keyed by an irritated ex? How bad? Is it just a scratch, or did they dig in and dent wherever they scratched your vehicle?
Do you need new trim that has been damaged? Your door mouldings? Wimdow trim? Door handles?
Mark the hell out of your vehicle, everything. Do this so you can visualize what you want to do.
Is there paint that is worn out, it will take a little more to fix this than just sanding it. Is your paint peeling, has the clear coat let go and delaminated (usually you can tell this by a chalky pale to white spotty areas).
Do you want to replace the cowl trim at the back of the hood? Do you want new mirrors, new lock cylinders?
How do your headlights and taillights look? Are they yellowed out and foggy looking? Depending on how bad they are, you may be able to fix these problems without replacing. I have sanded many scabby faded headlights down and clear coated them, while not necessarily new looking, they looked damn good for a minimal cost.
Mark your car with all of these shortcomings you find. Take pictures completely around the vehicle, get a note pad and record everything you see and have marked.
Clean all of that damn righting off of your vehicle now.
Drive to the local liquor store and get at least a good strong six pack and go back home.
Pop a cold one, drink half straight away, and look at your list along with the accompanying pictures. Prepare a build list of what order you want to tackle these issues. Then take a complete day away from it, it will seem overwhelming at first. But you can do this and you'll realize you love that mustang and will come back to your list a little more invigorated.
Be realistic about your list and also be a dreamer too. Make two seperate list if you need of things you need to do, then one for things you want to do.
Always address safety issue first! If your floor has rotted around the seat belt area, you might tackle that prior to the scratch on the driver's side moulding.
This evaluation is important, you will need to get tools and supplies to repair and refinish what you find. It's best to be realistic, that way you can plan out, employ and finish the plan. Then you will be so pleased with yourself for having fixed it right.
It's late for me, I need to go to bed.
This is the beginning of your new paint job, be excited. You can paint a car, and you CAN do it properly, and it will look sweet. I'll be here to help you.
Chow for now.
Chips on the edge of the door are easy just take some 320 grit sand paper to,smooth them by hand. then back over it with 500-600 by hand.
The larger chip will need to be feathered out using 320 on your DA and primered with maybe two, three at the most coats. It'll be black and black shows EVERTHING, So block it out with at a minimum of 400 grit sandpaper.
If you want information on the feathering of the chip and how to block, let me know, I'll answer tomorrow, I'm off to bed.
Uhhh
Will beer purchased from the grocery store suffice? The stuff at the liquor store is more expensive,...and you know how I feel about spending good money on something that will essentially render the same result for less.
Do I have to eat "chow" at 10PM, or can I eat at a time closer to the typically designated slot allotted for that purpose?
UhhhCouple of questions...
Will beer purchased from the grocery store suffice? The stuff at the liquor store is more expensive,...and you know how I feel about spending good money on something that will essentially render the same result for less.
Do I have to eat "chow" at 10PM, or can I eat at a time closer to the typically designated slot allotted for that purpose?
Careful, you can stoned to death saying stuff like that around these parts.
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