Paint and Body Fox Body Painting 101

s351 said:

alot of reading and good info. Looking at you sig "rebuilt stock b-.030 over. GT40x heads, Edelbrock RPM performer intake, Quickfuel carb. TrickFlow Stage 2 cam, BBK long tube headers and h-pipe", I did the same exact engine parts build on my last mustang down to the quickfuel carb. great progress and incredible painting

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No kidding, how'd you like the motor? Did it run nice?

Oh, and thanks, a monkey with a skill.....

Got most of the brackets cut off tonight, only had half an hour. I will drill out the spot welds on the brackets maybe tomorrow. My daughters play starts tomorrow night, so I got to do that first.

madmike1157 said:

You callin that guy a monkey Dave?

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You are on fire today Mike.......

So, today I cleaned the frame of all brackets. Then I proceeded to marking the wheel tubs with a crayon and a ruler to be sure I cut fairly straight. I initially cut along the lines in various places with a die grinder to have openings for the jig saw to get in.

I could have just cut the whole thing out with the die grinders, but the jig saw is quieter and doesn't shower you with sparks!

After cutting out the inner tub, I cut the floor along the crayon lines I had made earlier to add the desired two inches of width.

While doing this, you will cut into the frame where the shock towers are. Don't sweat that if you will be notching the frame like I will be doing.

After I removed the inner tub I cleaned all of the edges of extra metal and ragged edges and went about fitting it.

Fitting it just means I placed the inner tub over the 2" cut out I did on the floor to match them up in preparation for welding. I trimmed where necessary to finish the fit.

I left the shock tower attached to the inner tub. The shock towers have brackets that weld to the frame. I did not cut these off earlier when I cut off the rest of the brackets, I just used the 1/2" belt sander to grind out the factory spot welds. I trimmed two inches off these brackets so they will fit with this procedure. I had to bend the brackets back out again to have the area I will weld to the frame when I get to that stage.

Tools I used: 4.5" grinder with cut off wheels and knotted wire wheel, 1/2" belt sander for cutting off the factory spot welds, electric die grinder with 2" cut off wheels for the tighter areas, jigsaw with blades for cutting metal, BFH, My daughter's crayons to draw lines for the cut off wheels and jigsaw. And a RULER! Must have item there, don't even try to guess on this.
Tomorrow, I will be notching the frame and taking 2" off of the seat belt bracket and then....I weld it all back together with my home made frame notch kit and 2.5" strips of metal!

I should be pretty close to have the driver's side done tomorrow and the other side done by the end of the day next Saturday.

I'll go on to the modifications I will be doing to the differential to accommodate the coil overs immediately after this is complete.

I will take more "in process" pictures when I do the right side. This was a moderate learning experience for me, I watched others do it on their threads, but actually doing it is always different than watching someone else doing it. Hopefully I'll post enough info for you to not be overly intimidated in trying this yourself.

Remember! Harbor Freight is your friend.

madmike1157 said:

What The Hell is Goin' on Here Dave?

I don't see nothing about painting,...All I'm seeing is a redundant mini tub thread.

I already know HOW to minitub, but if I didn't, I'd probably look in on your other thread,...the one labeled with the words "mini tub" in the title for inspiration.

Where is the painting "how to" I was expecting here? Where is the ABC's of process? Where are the 123's of proper technique?
Where are the "experts" recommended settings for mixing, thinning, pattern, pressure, and flow?

Come the hell on!


All I really learned was:

Block sand your already perfect car with 320.
Mask your perfect car.
Spray your perfect car with high dollar paint.

Shiny.

To say I'm disappointed in your blow by blow would be an understatement.


No soup for you!

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Yeah, well, it's free.

I'll get back more into a detail procedure of painting. My week has been crazy.

Maybe putting in the mini-tub over here is irrelevant, to give it some thought.

I'll avoid placing any more posts concerning this here.

I have gotten a little off topic. When you paint for a living, and you have done it for decades, you loose sight of the difficulties the inexperienced might have.

I will return to the subject of this thread. Not tomorrow, I'm mini-tubbing my car tomorrow. But Monday, we'll get back on topic.

Thanks for your gentle nudge Mike.

RaggedGT said:

You're going to "Paint" the tubs....
Just throwing that out there....

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Thanks Chris, but Mike, in his unusual way, is right.

I'll keep this thread for painting.

I'll help most anybody that asks for my help with painting. Probably even the guy with orange in his finger nails, he knows I like him.

89oem said:

@Davedacarpainter what we critics would expect from our new resident paint master
For you

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Very nice....

In effort to keep this paint thread oriented towards it's subject, I will be answering any pm's concerning paint I receive in this thread.

I have a busy life and sometimes forget where I answer paint and body questions. After reviewing this thread and pm's sent to me, I realized that a bunch of what I "remembered " as being in this thread was actually information given out personally to others wanting specific help. Fact is, through a few phone calls I've had with others, lots of information is given out that would be helpful to everyone here.

So, send me pm's with your questions still. I will answer them, but I probably will answer them in this thread as well.

If you don't want to be identified as the one requesting this information, I'll post it here as a general question with my answer.

I will still talk to anyone through a phone call as well. Lots of info gets across in just a few minutes on the phone. I will try to summarize these phone calls as well here.

I will give you your privacy by not referring to whom these questions come from.

I will go back through pm's and bring you my answers to them as I can. I'll stick with trying to update this thread every Monday. If I have extra time, I'll post at those times as well. I'll answer questions pretty much anytime you send one.

There you have it y'all. I lost a little focus on this thread. After having been lectured to by someone four years older than me as if I were a arrant child, I will post answers to your questions here, even ones from the guy that lectures.

madmike1157 said:

It's "errant".

Ok,...I'll ask a question.

1. When painting the car, what is the best "path" to take. In other words, where do you start spraying, and where do you stop?
2. As high as my car is off the ground, I still couldn't get the gun pointed at the bottom of the rockers w/o the air coupling stopping me from tipping the gun up any further. I almost had to tip the gun over to the point of paint coming out the vent on top.
Suggestions?
3. For Acrylic Enamel paint, how long do I wait, and what steps of grit should I use to color sand and buff the bumpers?
4. after having masked the car for primer, can I leave it masked for color in the same stuff?
5. is the 320 grit finish I'm currently blocking the primer with fine enough to top coat?
6. I'm painting my car Orange. Sealers come in 4 primary colors: White, Grey, Buff, and Black. I read that a white sealer would make a brighter color "pop" more than a grey or buff. I've already painted over the small pieces sealed in rattle can grey. What should I use, and will there be a hue difference if I seal the body and big parts in white?
7. The recess for the tail lights, and the grille mesh in the G gills are gonna be painted a contrasting flat/matte black. Can I rattle can those areas first, and then mask them off prior to the orange, (less masking) and do I have to worry about the overspray from the rattle can causing a paint reaction when the orange is sprayed over the overspray?
8. Is there such a thing as an "affordable" full face respirator, and what do you use personally?
(I'm still finding my glasses a little compromised from exposure to the priming regimen, I'm sure it'll be really bad when I start spraying sticky acrylic enamel.)
9 When building a booth it seems far less costly to just place filters at the front wall high, and fans sucking at the back wall low. That'll create a "negative pressure" and want to suck junk in past the cracks. But if I seal it well, and stop the fans when I walk out of the booth to refill the gun/leave,....is that gonna work? or do I have to positively pressurize the thing?
10. The compressor turns on in the middle of a recoat sometimes. Is it best to keep spraying when it kicks on, or should I wait till it fills, or does it matter?

There go.......painting 101 questions.

I'll save the other 10 for next time.

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I'm cooking, but I won't really have a lot of time till this afternoon to answer everything.

1. Are you painting the engine bay orange as well at the same time as the body? Simple answer is start at the rocker on on side, go up and over and down to the rocker on the other side.

2. I don't know what it would cost for using the 3M PPS system for shooting just one car. It works with a hard plastic cup and collar that holds plastic liners and lids that contain your paint. Using this system you can turn the cup upside down with no spilling possible. Other than that, possibly shooting your rockers one day with it jacked up higher. Then lowering the vehicle and shooting the rest another day. If you are determined to shoot all at once, the way I used to shoot rockers prior to the PPS system was to simply hold the gun sideways at roughly a 90 degree angle and same angle front to back. Easier to show you. I'll post a picture tomorrow at work to show what I mean.

3. How long do you wait for what? Between coats? Till you buff? Assuming you mean buffing, a couple days is fine. If you wait a longer time (like I am on my car) it's actually more difficult to rub the car since the paint will have hardened more completely.

Use a fifteen hundred grit wet/dry sandpaper with a spray bottle of water to keep the paper lubricated to nib out the dirt specks. I use a white wool pad for the initial buffing, use a general purpose rubbing compound. Follow with something like 3M's grey polishing pads to remove the buffing swirls from the wool pad, use a polishing compound with this step. You can go even further to remove even the swirls of the grey pad with a blue final glaze pad with accompanying finishing glaze.

I'll answer more later.

Still to early to do any cutting and grinding, so....

4. You can use the same paper and just leave it masked from primering if you want. I usually don't since the paper will have a rough overspray on it from the primer coating and that will hold some of the dust from blocking the vehicle, which, of course, will blow on to your vehicle during refinishing. =more rubbing.

5. No, 320 is too heavy of a grit to topcoat. You may not notice the scratches immediately, but within one to two weeks you will. Even with a sealer coat it'll probably be too much. Areas that I block will normally have the DA run across it with 320 DA sandpaper prior to sealing. The criss cross scratches from blocking have a pattern to them, whereas the DA sander will produce random, small circles that are relatively easy to fill with the paint.

Trick is using the DA on the blocked surfaces properly. Keep the DA as flat as possible, don't use pressure on the tool, and do smooth sweeping motions with it. As you sand the blocked area, be sure to "blend" across each are you sand with previous areas to keep waves from forming on the panels. By blending, I just mean to lightly sand back across previously sanded area with a couple swipes of your DA.

6. In your case, try to use the same color that you used previously on the parts. I find that you really need to try matching the value (lightness and darkness) of the top color to achieve the best coverage and match to the intended color. I mostly use shades of gray on all my paint jobs, with the exception being red pearls, that grayish green color you saw on my car. Most other colors do best with shades of grey (white to black).

It is true that orange will look brighter with a white sealer, just as a solid red will. Reds through yellows are the most transparent of colors, and as a side note, most expensive. They allow the underlying paint to determine the brightness of the color. Match the value of the sealer to the value of the color you want to get what you expected.

7. Sure you can do that first. I wouldn't myself simply due to the sharper line you will have from the orange requiring sealer and the color itself being a heavier paint. There is also the possibility of some slight bleeding of the color underneath the tape, and with it's thickness, would be more difficult to correct when you are finished. You might also see an edge of gray from the sealer around where you tape.

The black overspray won't cause problems for you as long as you lightly sand them to provide the required mechanical adhesion for the top layers.

If I were you Mike, I would paint the whole vehicle orange and then come back to do the accenting black. As you know, the black covers quickly, and is fairly thin. It will leave FAR less of an edge. It's a bit more of a pita, but will look much better and professional. Also with the entire car being coated with the orange first, you will be providing much more protection for the sub surface of the vehicle.

8. No to affordability. They are all fairly pricey. I don't use one because they are distracting to me while I'm painting.

I started using disposable contact lenses years ago due to this problem you're having. Use lacquer thinner to wipe your glasses, that's what I do with my reading glasses at work. The thinner can eventually damage the coating on your glasses eventually though. I wouldn't worry about it for one paint job.

I use a 3M disposable painters mask. I change out to a new one every two weeks. I use theirs primarily because it is what the shop provides. No big reason or preference over something like a Gertson or other brand.

9. Do whatever you can to have a slightly positive pressure. This really helps to keep out dust in the paint job.

Have a stronger fan blowing into your booth. Be sure to have a filter on it and baffle the incoming air so as not to have it causing dirt to be lifted from a strong turbulence. Place the input fan higher up towards the ceiling if possible , and the exhaust fan lower toward the ground. Use a smaller fan for the exhaust. Or you could use two box fans with speed control, just turn the exhaust on a lower setting.

Leave the fans running for a good hour after you finish painting. Your new paint job will loose most of the solvents in it during that time and a gentle airflow around it will assist the paint in this function. Plus, in a stagnant air enclosure, the solvents coming from the paint will hang close to the surface like a fog that you won't see. This fog will be saturated with the exiting solvents and make it more difficult for the paint to remove the solvents. This can lead to things like hazing, which I've described previously as a mild form of solvent pop. It can be removed through the rubbing stage, but if you don't have to have it........

The positive pressure will help when you need to refill your gun and between coats too.

You don't want a lot of pressure, just a little, but you really should try to have it.

10. I think it would be more important to keep spraying when the compressor switches on. Just practice adjusting the pressure setting on your gun a lot to account for the drops and rises in pressure from your compressor. Having a steady pressure while you're shooting is important to a consistent refinish, nearly as important as your beer selection, not quite, but almost.

You will want to be able to adjust the pressure on you gun on the fly so it's a simple issue for you that you have already considered and understand you will need to do it during the process.

For me, it's important while I'm painting to not have any physical or mental distractions. I clear my mind of any bs outside the paint job and limit the physical distractions. What I can't limit, I understand and prepare my thinking accordingly so it isn't a distraction, it's just part of the painting procedure. Wether it's hose placement, air pressure, whatever. Try to let your mind be free to watch how the paint sprays from the gun to the surface, adjust for the best finish and continue to spray at that point till the job is finished.

Then get pissed at your air compressor, pita wife, crappy weather, etc.....