Engine Fresh build lifter noise

08GT500 said:

Hi,
Well- sorry to hear a noise remains, glad to hear that #4E’s pumping up for you, however. Additives help, used correctly. Can you pls.provide a little Data Re:
1) Cam your running, Heads.
2) Oil Wt./type you’re running, how many miles on the Motor.
3) C.Ratio? Octane being run?
4) Timing advance at idle? Does noise improve as engine temp increases?
5) Oil Pressure @ cold idle, warm?
6) Been Dynotuned?
Difficult to discern precisely...IMO I hear both exhaust leaks & valve-train noise(s).
-1) Flange(s) pictured indicate Carbon streaks (edited pic. below).
-2) Flanges not parallel to each other nor perpendicular to the shorty Header/downstream exhaust piping Ball & Socket joint. Upper bolt @ angle to meet Header collector flange- incorrect Pipe flange? Hard to seal if not the same pattern..
I’d pull and clean/repair if joint(s) damaged, reseat/equally align & re-torque these & others like it. Apply a non hardening exhaust sealant. Never seize on all Bolts & spark Plug threads (below).
Doubtful, but if your Heads have the smog pump W/AIR threaded passages front & back- pull the Plugs/Inserts & reseal threads (high temp RTV)/re-install.
Header gaskets replaced, re-torque these
once no major leaks verified. Run your hands around after cold startup & feel for escaping Gases. If you find a leak, run a straightedge along the Header flange, ensure it’s flat.
Check your Spark Plug sealing surfaces are correct for the Head(s) countersink or counterbore (Washer type) & seated/torqued into the head correctly, may be losing there.
Once you verify it can’t be.cleared after reading entire article, i’d Perform -3).
-3) Valvetrain noise, recheck your lash settings, verify everything remained tight in the valvetrain for the drivers side bank (know it’s a pain in the arse, pull the upper, but if you also agree noise remains in the valvetrain- should Check it). Don’t re-install the cover until it’s been run & all has been checked.
As I’d mentioned, these lifters have the predisposition for running louder to handle higher Spring loads, the more viscosity and Zinc you can safely get in, the quieter it’ll run. Plunger travel is around 0.125-0.187 for Lunati’s/Crower’s more radical Link Hydraulic types, plunger piston to Lifter body clearances larger than typical to allow viscosity to maintain solid @ 6,500-6,700 RPM’s under high Spring loads vs.”Dog-bone” retained counterparts.
You need to run what you can without risking too much viscosity for the Pump/Bearing clearances, etc..
Pushrods from Lunati as well? The more aggressive Hydraulic rollers run the quietest with all their components matched to Mfg.

Pic showing Carbon streaking @ joint indicating leakage.
Good luck!
- John

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Sk8trfred said:

Cam is .608 valve lift 236/244 with 112lsa

Afr205 heads no egr ports

10w-30 300 miles changed oil after 15 mins and again at 200 miles

10.7:1 93octane

Idle timing tried 17-25 no difference

Oil pressure 60cold 35-40 warm

Not dunno tuned, running Holley sniper it’s not optimal yet but I know it’s good enough to not cause an issue

The uneven flanges you’re seeing are the back side of the H pipe. I did have some exhaust leaks initially but there are none now, I’ve replaced the header gaskets already and found nothing showing a leak. I’ve had the car on a lift and checked excessively for leaks.

I’m going to pull the intake today and see if there’s something obvious with the lifters, if not I guess I’ll pull the heads too and see if I can find anything. I don’t want to keep running it like this because I’m afraid it will find me

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08GT500 said:

Hi, Thanks for the details, I now understand what you’re running. Valve-train Vid. posted, sounded almost solid flat Tappet..You’re correct, problem will “Find you”.
Think Lifter selection plays a large role, here. Marking on Lifter pic’s posted outweighed by other anomalies viewed. Quite possibly occurred as result of being “lazy” to pump-up.
Take the opportunity to see how well your Pushrods seat in the Lifter Cup, and Rocker. Also look for Pushrod/Block contact proof marking, as well as any other gross misalignment within each I & E Valve, binding points. Verify Springs are correct, look at Geometry; wear on Valve Stems.
EXTREMELY surprised to hear LUNATI directed you to run Sea foam.... They should be re-imbursing you for that #2 Lifter, if not all requiring replacing like your 1st Pic..
Are you running a Thrust Assembly (Cam button) to prevent Cam “walk”, whether Bronze, a Roller Bearing Thrust stackup?
ABSOLUTELY...replace any Lifters that are problematic, are questionable, have excessive lateral Roller endplay, burrs & chipping (Zoom in on Pic #1, Roller slot burrs, chips). Show these to the MFG.
Cam lobes look good? Your Oil Pressure numbers are good. Run a Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge, most reliable.
You may not realize measured pressure @ Lifter galleys, however. There are a few methods of boosting top end Oil Pressure via restriction Galleys placed in strategic positions. If it comes to that, i’ll Elaborate further..
More causes, pressure drop:
1) Oil Galley plug(s) loose or drilled.
2) Partially clogged Galley.
3) Lifter to lifter bore clearance excessive/out of specifications. Non-concentric.
4) Lifter puking oil out bore @ top or bottom of travel.
Suggestions:
-I imagine you’re either running a non-Roller Block, or roller but decided to use Morel’s due to high RPM/Valve spring pressures.(?)
What is seated Spring pressure(s), Open pressure@ Full Valve Lift?
-You will experience slightly more noise due to the Lifters being run, preload a full turn or more sometimes applies, engine off- hot. You don’t want a Valve hanging open, yet carefully exceeding service limits work to stifle things, double verifying afterwards a Valve isn’t hanging

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08GT500 said:

Hi, Thanks for the details, I now understand what you’re running. Valve-train Vid. posted, sounded almost solid flat Tappet..You’re correct, problem will “Find you”.
Think Lifter selection plays a large role, here. Marking on Lifter pic’s posted outweighed by other anomalies viewed. Quite possibly occurred as result of being “lazy” to pump-up.
Take the opportunity to see how well your Pushrods seat in the Lifter Cup, and Rocker. Also look for Pushrod/Block contact proof marking, as well as any other gross misalignment within each I & E Valve, binding points. Verify Springs are correct, look at Geometry; wear on Valve Stems.
EXTREMELY surprised to hear LUNATI directed you to run Sea foam.... They should be re-imbursing you for that #2 Lifter, if not all requiring replacing like your 1st Pic..
Are you running a Thrust Assembly (Cam button) to prevent Cam “walk”, whether Bronze, a Roller Bearing Thrust stackup?
ABSOLUTELY...replace any Lifters that are problematic, are questionable, have excessive lateral Roller endplay, burrs & chipping (Zoom in on Pic #1, Roller slot burrs, chips). Show these to the MFG.
Cam lobes look good? Your Oil Pressure numbers are good. Run a Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge, most reliable.
You may not realize measured pressure @ Lifter galleys, however. There are a few methods of boosting top end Oil Pressure via restriction Galleys placed in strategic positions. If it comes to that, i’ll Elaborate further..
More causes, pressure drop:
1) Oil Galley plug(s) loose or drilled.
2) Partially clogged Galley.
3) Lifter to lifter bore clearance excessive/out of specifications. Non-concentric.
4) Lifter puking oil out bore @ top or bottom of travel.
Suggestions:
-I imagine you’re either running a non-Roller Block, or roller but decided to use Morel’s due to high RPM/Valve spring pressures.(?)
What is seated Spring pressure(s), Open pressure@ Full Valve Lift?
-You will experience slightly more noise due to the Lifters being run, preload a full turn or more sometimes applies, engine off- hot. You don’t want a Valve hanging open, yet carefully exceeding service limits work to stifle things, double verifying afterwards a Valve isn’t hanging via Compression test..
-You may consider running the quieter operating Lifter alternative. Springs for a 6,000-6,300 RPM Cam do not require this much lifter (unless your in that range, continuously) but need be based on exact Springs as installed, whether it’s a Roller Block, or you’re running a reduced Base circle Cam design.
- Lash Caps are useful if you have the area to apply to your specific setup.
-10-40Wt May also help in this effort, hinging on your Rod & Main clearances.
- Additives with Zinc, PTFE.
1) To verify your Lifters are not losing oil when reaching the top of the lifter bore, depressurizing it. Rotate Motor & get a Lifter to Lobe peak, then Base Circle & spin Pump w/cordless Drill w/Hex Pump drive CCW to verify.
As initially you’d pressed down on #4E @ Rocker with no resistance. This was a 100% indication that the valve lifter is leaking down too fast or not retaining oil from the engine.

Excess Valvetrain noise; typical:
1)improper lash settings.
2) Loose or misaligned Valvetrain parts, binding.
3) Interference of Rocker ass’y/Stud.
4) Rocker trunnion upside down.
5) Valvecover to Rocker interference.
6) The weight/type of oil/contamination of, or the oil supply itself.
7) Excess oil in the crankcase causing foaming and aeration lifters experience random depressurization.
8) Rocker Geometry incorrect.
9) Raw Fuel excessive, gas washing Cylinders & lessening effective Oil viscosity.

-Slow leakdown will generally cause the engine to be noisy only when cold when Oil viscosity is high. Whereas fast leak-down presents as a noisy valve-train when the engine is warm. Fast leakdown will also occur if the ball-check in the lifter fails to seal.
I strongly believe if your Springs are what I anticipate, and you pulled away from the current lifters, you’d be just as good without noise & retain performance.
The pinnacle Hydraulic lifters won’t run above 6,700RPM’s & designs to push that envelope results in only +300 RPM’s across the board, as it’s not only the Lifter, it’s the concept that limits itself & becomes risky with P/V issues.
6,500+ RPM’s is invariably Solid Lifter Cam territory.
Good luck!
John

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HotFox said:

Ahhhhhh. Ok well I would get a new set of lifters then, I really thought Morels were a good lifter. It's hard to say how hard your making contact with the rocker and adjuster since this is two hard metals. Not a ton of experience with this setup, I run shafts and more lift with my set up and would try to sway anyone who is over .550 to do the same. I would not sacrifice geometry just to eliminate the contact. If it were me I would consider releaving the rocker or adjuster to get your clearence.

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