Wheels-Tires Front fender & liner rub with 245/45/17s

[FastDriver]

I got under Black Jack today figuring that the fender liner was loose and maybe missing a screw or plastic shield retainer/rivet that would be an easy adjustment. I was wrong. Now sure I can do anything about this but stiff springs or coilovers I can lift the car up with. Any ideas?

Passenger side's the worst:

It's really catching the fender, too.

I have heard it on the passenger side, even when just making a spirited U-turn on the street, let alone when autocrossing. But, I don't really remember hearing it on the driver's side. However, it is happening both ways, maybe just not catching the fender. Here's the driver's side from in the fender well looking out:

And here's my helper checkin put the undercarriage:

I'm at a loss for anything else I can do. Suppose I could roll the front fender a bit more, but am worried the liner won't go back in if I go crazy.

 

[Noobz347]

My opinion, scrap the liner, and spray some flat black up in there. Get the fender rolling tool and heat gun.

These damned things were like coming across a gold mine back the day. Now anybody can have one:

Amazon.com

 

[Noobz347]

This will help with using the tool:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtP7yH7l87w

 

[FastDriver]

I have a nice eastwood roller. That would work. I'd have to rethink the air filter. The MAF spazzes in the rain when the liner is out.

 

[FastDriver]

ps. I I couldn't stand posting the pic with the unloomed wires, so...

 

[FastDriver]

You might not drive in the rain, @Noobz347, but does the power pipe come with a splash guard or anything that protects the filter?

edit: I could maybe move the nitrous controller forward onto a blank plate where the stock airbox goes and put a 4" AFM Power Pipe in.

 

[Noobz347]

I don't know if you are in love with whatever is between your TB and filter but...

 

[Noobz347]

You do have a lot of [stuff] jammed into that little area.

 

[FastDriver]

I don't have a ton of space left, and not inclined to rear mount the battery, as I prefer the hatch for utility in this DD, but I'm thinking I need the find a splash guard that fits a filter in the fender well and either run the AFM 4", just have someone fab up a Pipe and splash guard for me.

 

[Blown88GT]

245/25/17s ???​

Do you mean 245/45/17s or something else?

Which car?
93 GT or '91 LX

Looks like spindles & other suspension parts are not stock.

 

[85GTStangGuy]

That would be his '91 LX daily he's talking about. Don't know his spindle/suspension details,

 

[FastDriver]

Typo, sorry. Yes 245/45/17s. Doing more posts from my phone degrades my grammar, spelling, and # of typos.

94-95 spindles. FMS B springs. MM C/C plates. Thought I had lakewoods up front, and they are lakewood 50/50s in the back, but they actually look stockish up front.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I ran 245/40R17's for years on the stock type front suspension (coil overs now) with H&R Super Sports and Tokiko Illumina struts and never rubber the inner liner. I tried a set of B springs and they were way to low for me at the time.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

Having been in the passenger seat of this car during a few awesome autocross runs (and having the benefit of someone watching the car from the outside), I have some ideas to help solve this issue from an autocross perspective...

I've never used B springs, but I have C springs on my 1992 GT. Your B springs (like the C springs) seem to lower the front of a Fox more than is ideal for autocross. I needed to add Steeda spring spacers (along with poly isolators) to get the front of the car a little higher. It might sit higher than some people would like, but it makes the car better on an autocross course.

Your car has a lot of body roll. The progressive B springs, your OEM struts & OEM sway bars all factor into this issue. If you make everything (springs, struts & sway bars) as stiff as possible, you will make the car worse on an autocross course. Installing a stiffer front sway bar with an OEM rear sway bar and OEM struts will increase the car's tendency to understeer at the limit of traction. You have to get everything to work together. And you have to determine if your OEM struts are working as well as they should be. If your struts need replacing, consider a set of adjustable front struts. If the struts are fine, consider stiffer sway bars. I suggest a 25mm rear sway bar and a Steeda 1 3/8" front sway bar. But keep in mind that you might need adjustable struts to help get everything to work together as well as possible.

Because you can disconnect/replace sway bars easily when you drag race the car, I don't think these mods will make the car worse for drag racing.

It's worth mentioning that I would normally suggest adjustable shocks & struts and a 25mm rear sway bar first. A stiffer front sway bar is the LAST suspension mod I make to my autocross Mustangs (because sway bars are used to fine-tune the suspension). My adjustable shocks & struts are set at a 2 out of 5, which is pretty soft, to work with my stiffer sway bars. If I set the shocks & struts at 5, the car suffers from a lot of understeer & oversteer out on course.

Suspension is all about balance. You have to find the right components to work together as a system. And I always try to decide on all the front suspension mods I want to make so I can make them all at once (that saves money on alignments).

 

[cimscott]

Hi everyone, I am new member here, but not new to the scene.
I have been mostly on 4eyed pride and The Corral for many years .

War Horse racing has hit it on the head.

Questions about your setup.

It looks like you’re running a SN95 front brake setup. I do believe that will slightly increase your wheel base pushing your tires further out.
What camber are you running on the street…? I run 1.7 neg as my tires will dry rot before I wear them out. If you run a little more camber it will help some.

Springs: I have run the C springs with the old style Koni reds. With my 87-93 front brake set up, with 245-45-17’s, I never hit the outer part of the fender liner. However, anytime I had to turn the wheel to park or a tight turn , the tires would rub the inside of the liner, including the sway bar….. had to install Rack limiters to avoid this, which killed my turning radius.
BTW: C springs are 650lb constant rate.

The Big one: Ride height.
What is yours , measuring from the ground to the fender lip on the centerline of the wheel?
I had measured mine at 251/2” .
Fox’s, don’t work well with to low a ride height. Go to MM’s website and read up.

Either you need new springs, or like mentioned, new springs isolators.

Going Coil overs is the next step.

Wit my setup on my 84 GT, I now run MM’s coil overs with 3/8” wheel spacers for clearance., 2 rack limiters, and 26 5/8-3/4 ride height with no rubbing any where.

And yes I do Auto-X it now and then.

BTW:, love your dogs tail… kinda like a fox..

Scott

 

[cimscott]

Hi everyone, I am new member here, but not new to the scene.
I have been mostly on 4eyed pride and The Corral for many years .

War Horse racing has hit it on the head.

Questions about your setup.

It looks like you’re running a SN95 front brake setup. I do believe that will slightly increase your wheel base pushing your tires further out.
What camber are you running on the street…? I run 1.7 neg as my tires will dry rot before I wear them out. If you run a little more camber it will help some.

Springs: I have run the C springs with the old style Koni reds. With my 87-93 front brake set up, with 245-45-17’s, I never hit the outer part of the fender liner. However, anytime I had to turn the wheel to park or a tight turn , the tires would rub the inside of the liner, including the sway bar….. had to install Rack limiters to avoid this, which killed my turning radius.
BTW: C springs are 650lb constant rate.

The Big one: Ride height.
What is yours , measuring from the ground to the fender lip on the centerline of the wheel?
I had measured mine at 251/2” .
Fox’s, don’t work well with to low a ride height. Go to MM’s website and read up.

Either you need new springs, or like mentioned, new springs isolators.

Going Coil overs is the next step.

Wit my setup on my 84 GT, I now run MM’s coil overs with 3/8” wheel spacers for clearance., 2 rack limiters, and 26 5/8-3/4 ride height with no rubbing any where.

And yes I do Auto-X it now and then.

BTW:, love your dogs tail… kinda like a fox..

Scott

 

[cimscott]

Sorry, I made a mistake about my camber setting… after rechecking my alignment print out…. I Am running 1.3* neg camber.
I haven’t had any tire wear problems, but this car see’s maybe 1000 miles a year.
Scott

 

[FastDriver]

Lol. I told a guy at a shop to set it to -2*. I guess he thought I didn't know what I was asking for and only set it to -1*. But, it's been doin pretty well. I just replaced the front tires... was prolly about a year. I shoulda had em turned around on the wheels, and will get that right with these. They'll last longer, since I have Bridgestone Auto-x tires for the car, now.

Anyways, the front springs went on for the first time, with isolaters less than 2 years ago, right after I bought it back in July of '22 for $3,800.

I'm seein' 25 1/2" on the passenger side, and 25 1/4" on the drivers... the fender there is loose and will be addressed when I get the car painted.

I had C-springs in a car I now have coil overs in. Lived 'em, but frankly B's are better in a daily, so long as I can clear this situation up.

@Warhorse Racing , you're the man. Thanks for the advice. I probably will go down this route. I didn't think I'd do it, but adjustable shocks and sways are sounding like the right idea. Should help at the auto-x if I get it right, and even though you see me going to the strip, the order of priorities is 1. fun, 2. Cruising & DD'ing, and a distant 3rd is Auto-x. Drag strip is irrelevant other than referring back to #1 and tweaking the nitrous and tune. But destroying the fender and liner is going to hurt after it gets painted. So, I need to work this out beforehand.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

@Warhorse Racing , you're the man. Thanks for the advice. I probably will go down this route. I didn't think I'd do it, but adjustable shocks and sways are sounding like the right idea. Should help at the auto-x if I get it right, and even though you see me going to the strip, the order of priorities is 1. fun, 2. Cruising & DD'ing, and a distant 3rd is Auto-x. Drag strip is irrelevant other than referring back to #1 and tweaking the nitrous and tune. But destroying the fender and liner is going to hurt after it gets painted. So, I need to work this out beforehand.

I'm always happy to help. You can completely change the personality of a Mustang with adjustable shocks & struts, and sway bars. Once you get familiar with how the car reacts to the adjustments, it's pretty easy to get your Mustang dialed-in. You can also come up with settings for daily driving and autocross.

There's a video on my channel about "How to Adjust Your Autocross Suspension" that you might find helpful. Most of the adjustable parts on my Fox have been discontinued, but I can suggest parts that are currently available.

Raising the front end a little will definitely help. With stock-style (not coil-over) suspension, I prefer the fender lips on my autocross cars to be between 26" and 27".