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FUEL MILEAGE PROBLEMS---HELP!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1992MustangGT
  • Start date Start date Dec 8, 2009
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Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,191
17,889
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Massachusetts
Dec 10, 2009
#21
  • Dec 10, 2009
  • #21
1992MustangGT said:
I put Autolite platinum plugs in my 67 Cougar I'm building right now. Haven't fired it up yet, but after reading this advice I'm having second thoughts. Should I put copper plugs in this engine also? The 5.0L Mustang we have been talking about is computer controlled and has alot more sensors and solenoids, etc.... on it, but the Cougar is a basic engine with a carbuerator. Does that make a difference on using platinum vs. copper????
Click to expand...

Platnium isn't better, it's just harder..so it doesn't wear as quickly. Plats were developed for modern EFI engines where it's tough to change plugs and simply for marketing reasons. If manufacturers sell a luxury car that requires less plug changes, people tended to love that idea.

In terms or performance, copper (and silver) plugs offer the lease resistance. Iridium plugs make a case as even being better than plats due to offering a thinner electrode and less resistance that way. Plats are pretty much bottom of barrel.

Modern cars are usually designed for the plats, so the ignition is designed around it. I usually say if it came with copper...stick with copper. If it came with plats, stick to plats. But modern marketing makes people think because plat costs more than copper, then Plat must be "better"...Same deal with premium and regular fuel. Everyone ignores the engineering reason, and just associates higher octane with better fuel.


Which MAF did you install?
 
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1992MustangGT

15 Year Member
Sep 6, 2008
166
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19
Washington State
Dec 10, 2009
#22
  • Dec 10, 2009
  • #22
90lxcoupe said:
Did you start getting bad mileage right after the TB and mass air? if so put the stock junk back on and call it a day, i would guess this is your problem
Click to expand...

After I put on the TB and mass air, my mileage went from 26 on the highway to 23. So I doubt that's the problem. Both are from BBK.
 
1

1992MustangGT

15 Year Member
Sep 6, 2008
166
14
19
Washington State
Dec 10, 2009
#23
  • Dec 10, 2009
  • #23
Mustang5L5 said:
Platnium isn't better, it's just harder..so it doesn't wear as quickly. Plats were developed for modern EFI engines where it's tough to change plugs and simply for marketing reasons. If manufacturers sell a luxury car that requires less plug changes, people tended to love that idea.

In terms or performance, copper (and silver) plugs offer the lease resistance. Iridium plugs make a case as even being better than plats due to offering a thinner electrode and less resistance that way. Plats are pretty much bottom of barrel.

Modern cars are usually designed for the plats, so the ignition is designed around it. I usually say if it came with copper...stick with copper. If it came with plats, stick to plats. But modern marketing makes people think because plat costs more than copper, then Plat must be "better"...Same deal with premium and regular fuel. Everyone ignores the engineering reason, and just associates higher octane with better fuel.


Which MAF did you install?
Click to expand...

Thanks for that excellent explanation about the copper vs. platinum plugs. That makes sense. Looks like I'll be buying copper plugs for both engines...The MAF is from BBK.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,191
17,889
224
Massachusetts
Dec 10, 2009
#24
  • Dec 10, 2009
  • #24
Revisit the EGR. Pull the codes and verify the EGR code is still present.

EGR is vital in fuel economy. In part throttle settings, the engine basically pumps combusted air back into the intake. Since all the oxygen has been burned out of this air, it's inert, and unable to ignite anymore. So, since this inert air is filling the cylinder partially, the engine can dial back and use less fuel. When the EGR is faulty, the engine adds more fuel. EGR is operating in cruise settings, which is where you are getting your fuel economy from.

So i would heavily suspect the EGR in this case.

This might help you get started

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/7882070-post2.html
 
1

1992MustangGT

15 Year Member
Sep 6, 2008
166
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Washington State
Dec 11, 2009
#25
  • Dec 11, 2009
  • #25
Mustang5L5 said:
Revisit the EGR. Pull the codes and verify the EGR code is still present.

EGR is vital in fuel economy. In part throttle settings, the engine basically pumps combusted air back into the intake. Since all the oxygen has been burned out of this air, it's inert, and unable to ignite anymore. So, since this inert air is filling the cylinder partially, the engine can dial back and use less fuel. When the EGR is faulty, the engine adds more fuel. EGR is operating in cruise settings, which is where you are getting your fuel economy from.

So i would heavily suspect the EGR in this case.

This might help you get started

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/7882070-post2.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for that explanation. That helps me understand the EGR system much better. And that link you provided was awesome!!!! Thanks...

Question...I already replaced the EGR valve a few months ago. Do you still think it could be the problem? I was planning on replacing the EVR vacuum solenoid and put copper plugs in it (instead of platinum) and see if that helps. What do you think?
 

pudman

Member
May 31, 2008
109
0
16
tujunga,ca
Dec 11, 2009
#26
  • Dec 11, 2009
  • #26
before you buy a new EVR solenoid... check it first to see if it's bad. here's a link
Ford Fuel Injection EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR)
the only place i could find one was at latemodelrestoration at $ 55.00 plus $15.00 for shipping. Definitely use the copper plugs
 
1

1992MustangGT

15 Year Member
Sep 6, 2008
166
14
19
Washington State
Dec 11, 2009
#27
  • Dec 11, 2009
  • #27
pudman said:
before you buy a new EVR solenoid... check it first to see if it's bad. here's a link
Ford Fuel Injection EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR)
the only place i could find one was at latemodelrestoration at $ 55.00 plus $15.00 for shipping. Definitely use the copper plugs
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. And thanks for the website. That's a great website that will help me with alot of other issues that may come up. I"m hoping to get to it this weekend, but since it's colder than a bitch out there we'll see what happens. It's supposed to snow this weekend.

Oh, by the way.....Autozone has the vacuum solenoid for $39.99.
 
1

1992MustangGT

15 Year Member
Sep 6, 2008
166
14
19
Washington State
Jan 7, 2010
#28
  • Jan 7, 2010
  • #28
Mustang5L5 said:
Revisit the EGR. Pull the codes and verify the EGR code is still present.

EGR is vital in fuel economy. In part throttle settings, the engine basically pumps combusted air back into the intake. Since all the oxygen has been burned out of this air, it's inert, and unable to ignite anymore. So, since this inert air is filling the cylinder partially, the engine can dial back and use less fuel. When the EGR is faulty, the engine adds more fuel. EGR is operating in cruise settings, which is where you are getting your fuel economy from.

So i would heavily suspect the EGR in this case.

This might help you get started

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/7882070-post2.html
Click to expand...

Ok guys, I finally purchased the EVR solenoid and and some Motorcraft copper plugs tonight. I installed the EVR solenoid, but not the plugs yet. But prior to installing it, I ran the codes again. It gave me 2 codes; (34 and 96).

Code 34 = Insufficient EGR flow or EVP voltage high (SONIC) or PFE sensor voltage high or out of specification.

Code 96 = Fuel pump secondary circuit fault / high speed fuel pump relay open

So after I retrieved the codes I changed the EVR solenoid. Then I cleared the codes off the computer and went and filled up with gas. After I got back I ran the codes again and nothing came up. But I'm not sure if I drove far enough for the system to throw codes again (if there are any problems), cuz the gas station was only 3 blocks away. So I guess I'll drive it for a couple weeks and see what the mileage is??? Might get a chance to change the plugs this weekend, but we'll see. It depends on the weather.

But here's my concern and question....Would code 96 cause my fuel mileage to go in the toilet? What happens when the fuel pump relay is constantly open? How does this effect fuel mileage, if at all?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,191
17,889
224
Massachusetts
Jan 8, 2010
#29
  • Jan 8, 2010
  • #29
You are gonna have to drive a little bit longer for any codes to develop. Sometimes they can be immediate...but i'd give it a few weeks then run them.

As for the code 96...if it comes back, here's where i'd start troubleshooting

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/538021-anyone-know-how-fix-code-96-has-do-fuel-pump.html
 
1

1992MustangGT

15 Year Member
Sep 6, 2008
166
14
19
Washington State
Jan 9, 2010
#30
  • Jan 9, 2010
  • #30
Mustang5L5 said:
You are gonna have to drive a little bit longer for any codes to develop. Sometimes they can be immediate...but i'd give it a few weeks then run them.

As for the code 96...if it comes back, here's where i'd start troubleshooting

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/538021-anyone-know-how-fix-code-96-has-do-fuel-pump.html
Click to expand...

Would code 96 cause my fuel mileage to go in the toilet? What happens when the fuel pump relay is constantly open? How does this effect fuel mileage, if at all? Also, is the fuel pump relay computer controlled or not?
 

apollo12

New Member
Dec 11, 2007
155
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port st.lucie fla
Jan 9, 2010
#31
  • Jan 9, 2010
  • #31
Is the air meter calibrated for your injectors?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,191
17,889
224
Massachusetts
Jan 9, 2010
#32
  • Jan 9, 2010
  • #32
1992MustangGT said:
Would code 96 cause my fuel mileage to go in the toilet? What happens when the fuel pump relay is constantly open? How does this effect fuel mileage, if at all? Also, is the fuel pump relay computer controlled or not?
Click to expand...


I don't beleive so, because the fuel system on these cars is a return style system. Basically there is a feed and return fuel line, and the pump pumps an excess of fuel to the motor. Whatever is not used is returned to the fuel tank. So you will always have extra fuel at the motor.


Like i said before, i would suspect the EGR or some function of it as it plays a role in economy.

Drive the car for a while and see what codes come back

The fuel pump relay is not computer controlled. These cars aren't that advanced when it comes to fuel injection
 

90mustangGT

I felt sorry for girls because
Founding Member
Jan 15, 2002
2,773
17
89
Dallas, GA
Jan 9, 2010
#33
  • Jan 9, 2010
  • #33
If the MAF is out of range then your fuel milege will suffer.

From 26 to 23 a huge difference???
 

MuleySam

New Member
Mar 29, 2010
3
0
0
Apr 17, 2011
#34
  • Apr 17, 2011
  • #34
Resurrection

Just wondering if 1992MustangGT got his mileage back up and what he did to fix it.

Sam
 
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