Getting the most out of Drum Brakes

68conv4sp · Dec 8, 2005

You may be right that racing with drum brakes is not a good idea. However, for those who do not have the $ for a conversion, we are well served to maximize what we have. Thus my orignal post asking to review all that is helpful for that purpose.

bnickel · Dec 8, 2005

drum brakes aren't all that bad. my dad had a 68 impala vert when i was in high school that had 4 wheel power drums and it stoppped pretty damn good. it always stopped straight and true and i never had a problem with fade in that car. i wish we still had it too, it was a damn nice car

ForceFed70 · Dec 8, 2005

68conv4sp: I think your missing the message here.

Nobody is telling you that maximizing your brakes is a bad idea. Especially if you can do it easily and for free or really cheap. But so far I havn't heard a single suggestion that I think will make much of a differance.

Drum brakes suck because they cannot shed the heat as well as disc brakes (at least from a performance standpoint.. they suck for other reasons too). Due to design, drilling them isn't going to help like with rotors. It's only going to allow water and dirt to enter the drum and make things worse. "matching the drums to the shoes" (or vice versa) is also not going to make a difference in shedding heat. Neither will performance pads.

Air ducting will help.. but you might as well go with discs at this point. Same goes for adding fins to the drum unless you can find an OEM drum from a different application. But even then your spending money... drums arn't that cheap.

What we are saying is spending significant time and money on them is a lost cause. Everyone's time is worth money.... you could use that time to make money.

ForceFed70 · Dec 8, 2005

bnickel said:
drum brakes aren't all that bad. my dad had a 68 impala vert when i was in high school that had 4 wheel power drums and it stoppped pretty damn good. it always stopped straight and true and i never had a problem with fade in that car. i wish we still had it too, it was a damn nice car

Not all drum brakes are made equal remember. If GM used nice large drums and shoes, they could perform quite well. There are other advantages to disc brakes however.

bnickel · Dec 8, 2005

70_Nitrous_Eater said:
68conv4sp: I think your missing the message here.

Nobody is telling you that maximizing your brakes is a bad idea. Especially if you can do it easily and for free or really cheap. But so far I havn't heard a single suggestion that I think will make much of a differance.

Drum brakes suck because they cannot shed the heat as well as disc brakes (at least from a performance standpoint.. they suck for other reasons too). Due to design, drilling them isn't going to help like with rotors. It's only going to allow water and dirt to enter the drum and make things worse. "matching the drums to the shoes" (or vice versa) is also not going to make a difference in shedding heat. Neither will performance pads.

Air ducting will help.. but you might as well go with discs at this point. Same goes for adding fins to the drum unless you can find an OEM drum from a different application. But even then your spending money... drums arn't that cheap.

What we are saying is spending significant time and money on them is a lost cause. Everyone's time is worth money.... you could use that time to make money.

well actually the drilled drums do allow a lot of heat to escape from the drum, but it's still not as efficient as a vented disc. you'd probably actually be quite surprised at how much heat the drilling allows to escape, combine that with some well placed holes drilled in the backing plate where the cooling ducts run and you actually have a pretty efficient way to cool the drums. a lot of the problem with drums fading is the heat that gets built up inside assembly that has nowhere to go, so it's kind of like a little oven in there, if you give that trapped heat a way out you will improve the effectiveness of the drum brakes exponentially.

even after that diatribe i would still rather have a really good set of discs. i am however, seriously considering doing all of the above to my rear drums until i can afford another versailles disc brake rear, since i sold my last one.

68conv4sp · Dec 9, 2005

Despite some brilliant insights that discs are better than drums, two of the on-topic posts have helped already. I took the old smooth exterior drums off on Tuesday and replaced them with the heavier ribbed type ($40). The new drums also were a perfect radius match for the almost new pads. With the old set up, fade was evident at the end of the 2nd hard stop. After bedding the new drum/shoe combination, it did not fade until the end of the 4th hard stop. Not as good as discs, but a real and inexpensive improvement for $40 plus my time. Thanks to those of you who understand budget limits.

bnickel · Dec 9, 2005

68conv4sp said:
Despite some brilliant insights that discs are better than drums, two of the on-topic posts have helped already. I took the old smooth exterior drums off on Tuesday and replaced them with the heavier ribbed type ($40). The new drums also were a perfect radius match for the almost new pads. With the old set up, fade was evident at the end of the 2nd hard stop. After bedding the new drum/shoe combination, it did not fade until the end of the 4th hard stop. Not as good as discs, but a real and inexpensive improvement for $40 plus my time. Thanks to those of you who understand budget limits.

now that you have all the good new stuff, i would go ahead and drill the old drums and swap them out for a few test runs and see how much improvement you get. i'm betting you will see a tremendous difference even over the current setup. then you will have enough evidence that you can decide whether or not to drill the new ones as well.

let me know how you like it if you do drill the old ones

SuperDave · Dec 9, 2005

Simple but effective ideas

Remember that MANY old Mustangs often have sticking, frozen or leaking wheel cylinders and brake drums that have been turned beyond tolerances. Often the rear brakes are not given the attention they deserve. Fresh wheel cylinders and properly sized drums may, in addition to the items mentioned, may make a huge difference in helping drum brakes work properly.

All thingsconsidered, doing the drum/disc conversion can be a cost-effective solution in the long run. Again, DON"T neglect the REAR brakes!

SD the Elder

HistoricMustang · Dec 9, 2005

I would caution against drilling drum brakes or modifying any stock OEM part unless inspections are done on a very regular basis (like every-time you drive the car more than a few miles).

Brake system failures usually end up with very bad results!!!!!!!!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

bnickel · Dec 11, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
I would caution against drilling drum brakes or modifying any stock OEM part unless inspections are done on a very regular basis (like every-time you drive the car more than a few miles).

Brake system failures usually end up with very bad results!!!!!!!!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Henry, people have been doing this since long before i was born and you were probably still in diapers when they started doing it. it is very unlikely that a failure will occur because of this modification, in fact you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning on a sunny day.

HistoricMustang · Dec 11, 2005

bnickel said:
Henry, people have been doing this since long before i was born and you were probably still in diapers when they started doing it. it is very unlikely that a failure will occur because of this modification, in fact you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning on a sunny day.

IMHO "very unlikely" is not good enough.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

ForceFed70 · Dec 11, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
I would caution against drilling drum brakes or modifying any stock OEM part unless inspections are done on a very regular basis (like every-time you drive the car more than a few miles).

Brake system failures usually end up with very bad results!!!!!!!!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

I tend to agree.

Drilling holes is just beging for a crack in the drum. It may be OK.. it may not be. Especially on an old drum that's probably getting thin anyway.

If this was a track only car.. I'd say go for it. But on the street I would get nervous.

68conv4sp: If you do decide to try this, please make sure to inspect those drums often. Especially after a day at the track.

HistoricMustang · Dec 11, 2005

70_Nitrous_Eater said:
I tend to agree.

Drilling holes is just beging for a crack in the drum. It may be OK.. it may not be. Especially on an old drum that's probably getting thin anyway.

If this was a track only car.. I'd say go for it. But on the street I would get nervous.

68conv4sp: If you do decide to try this, please make sure to inspect those drums often. Especially after a day at the track.

Bravo Nitrous.................

The point I keep trying to make is that modifications to stock equipment should not be made unless the car is inspected on a VERY regular basis. This is done with performance set ups by most sane people. Modifying street driven cars that may at some point be sold to another individual that is unaware of the modifications or does not do VERY regular inspections is a formula for disaster.

Several members are way to concerned on trying to discredit what I post!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

bnickel · Dec 11, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Bravo Nitrous.................

Several members are way to concerned on trying to discredit what I post!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Henry, the same can be said for you as well.

Getting the most out of Drum Brakes

68conv4sp

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bnickel

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That's why they call it "dope"

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