Good lord, cars are fast now!

[FastDriver]

I'm feeling a little nostalgic lately about a time before I built cars. In the muscle car era, a car in the 13s was pretty fast, and cars in the 12s were smokin' fast. It seems to me that now if your car is in the 12s, you're just par for the course. When the 5.0s came out, they were fast. Read the old magazines and get a taste for how people raved about 'em. A modern gear-head with a 14 second "muscle" car now would be laughed at.

The LT1 was high 13s capable, not too shabby. The LS1 was raved about for about 6 years from '97 to '03 while it pretty much ruled the road. Sure there were always the gear-heads like me who refused to let their creations be outrun by factory-stock performance cars, but the average LS1 owner wasn't bound to run into anything faster unless he stopped at a drag-strip, or at the local cruise-in where he might find someone like you or I hanging out.

It's getting harder for gear-heads like us to hold an advantage over stock performance cars today. Cars from nearly every manufacturer are being produced today that come with power that is very hard for old-school gear-heads to replicate especially using naturally aspirated engines. Dodge's hemi makes around 425hp, Chevy has base-model vettes, GTOs, and soon-to-be camaros with the LS2 making at least 400hp, and a Z06 making 500hp. Terminators make over 400hp, GT500s make about 500hp. Hell, the 4 cylinders that used to be pushovers are cranking out 300+hp and have the benefit of platforms featuring AWD giving them a big advantage in traction.

And then you've got the guys like us who spent nice money and hours upon hours in the garage building, tuning, and tweaking our "muscle" cars to put down numbers that by comparison seem weak. 320rwhp is pretty damned stout for a mild h/c/i 302, which is exactly what I got out of my old 302. On my next mustang, I ran a twin-turbo that saw anywhere from a mild 400 rwhp to 450 rwhp on an aggressive tune, and even this car could not keep up with the likes of Chevy's new Z06.

I'm going ape-**** now with a combination that I figured would be untouchable for years to come - a large single turboed 331 c.i. setup that should make at least 700 rwhp on pump gas. But, before I'm even done putting the project together, chevy already has a corvette in the hole that's supercharged and should make on the order of 650 hp before the enthusiasts start tweaking it. Terminators with blower swaps are making 600+ rwhp!!

To end the rant, let me briefly summarize what I'm getting at: The progress in automotive performance technology over the last decade has been absoluty mind-bending. The kind of power that was once only available to the guys who knew all the tricks/secrets is now common-place, and available at your nearest car dealership. Gear-heads whose ambition it is to push the envelope now have to go to stupid lengths to achieve their goals.

 

[5.0TailPipeHump]

Agreed but 1 thing i can say for sure is the pull off the line when in a foxbody, thats 1 thing that a 4 banger does not have let alone a 6.

 

[ryan218]

Agreed but 1 thing i can say for sure is the pull off the line when in a foxbody, thats 1 thing that a 4 banger does not have let along a 6.

same...and the sound is great i love em...my buddies tell me my car is inferior to there's... two of them have 91 and 92 civic hatch..there the only rice i know and i refuse to ride in there car.... my buddy with the 92 goes..

HIM: dude you see my new car!
ME: nope
HIM: you got to come check it out
ME: sure give me 30 mins ill be there
HIM: i only paid 6,500 for it too....man i got a hell a deal
ME: View attachment 377075
HIM: so ya like it man here hop in ill take ya around the block in it...
ME: *im still laughing at this point*
HIM: bounces it off the rev limiter and dumps it in first bogs and dies
ME:
HIM: hmm.... be right back gotta grab something ill try that again in a sec
ME: whatever *still laughing*
HIM: ok got the oil
ME:
HIM: ok we got a half court on each wheel...ill get it to spin this time
ME: ok
HIM: dumps off read line again and spins for a sec then bogs and dies
ME:
HIM: pretty cool aint it
ME: not so much
HIM: why?
ME: you needed oil to break lose
HIM: So.....dont you to get your mustang to do a burnout...
ME:
HIM: whats so funny?
ME: YOU
HIM: whats so funny?
ME: YOU
HIM: why?
ME: you just asked me if i needed to use oil on my wheels to get them to break lose
HIM: whys that so funny?
ME: because mines a V8 dumb ass.
HIM: oh...i thought it was 4 cyl too?
ME: no


we all made fun of him for weeks for this one...

 

[bluevenom867]

I'm feeling a little nostalgic lately about a time before I built cars. In the muscle car era, a car in the 13s was pretty fast, and cars in the 12s were smokin' fast. It seems to me that now if your car is in the 12s, you're just par for the course. When the 5.0s came out, they were fast. Read the old magazines and get a taste for how people raved about 'em. A modern gear-head with a 14 second "muscle" car now would be laughed at.

The LT1 was high 13s capable, not too shabby. The LS1 was raved about for about 6 years from '97 to '03 while it pretty much ruled the road. Sure there were always the gear-heads like me who refused to let their creations be outrun by factory-stock performance cars, but the average LS1 owner wasn't bound to run into anything faster unless he stopped at a drag-strip, or at the local cruise-in where he might find someone like you or I hanging out.

It's getting harder for gear-heads like us to hold an advantage over stock performance cars today. Cars from nearly every manufacturer are being produced today that come with power that is very hard for old-school gear-heads to replicate especially using naturally aspirated engines. Dodge's hemi makes around 425hp, Chevy has base-model vettes, GTOs, and soon-to-be camaros with the LS2 making at least 400hp, and a Z06 making 500hp. Terminators make over 400hp, GT500s make about 500hp. Hell, the 4 cylinders that used to be pushovers are cranking out 300+hp and have the benefit of platforms featuring AWD giving them a big advantage in traction.

And then you've got the guys like us who spent nice money and hours upon hours in the garage building, tuning, and tweaking our "muscle" cars to put down numbers that by comparison seem weak. 320rwhp is pretty damned stout for a mild h/c/i 302, which is exactly what I got out of my old 302. On my next mustang, I ran a twin-turbo that saw anywhere from a mild 400 rwhp to 450 rwhp on an aggressive tune, and even this car could not keep up with the likes of Chevy's new Z06.

I'm going ape-**** now with a combination that I figured would be untouchable for years to come - a large single turboed 331 c.i. setup that should make at least 700 rwhp on pump gas. But, before I'm even done putting the project together, chevy already has a corvette in the hole that's supercharged and should make on the order of 650 hp before the enthusiasts start tweaking it. Terminators with blower swaps are making 600+ rwhp!!

To end the rant, let me briefly summarize what I'm getting at: The progress in automotive performance technology over the last decade has been absoluty mind-bending. The kind of power that was once only available to the guys who knew all the tricks/secrets is now common-place, and available at your nearest car dealership. Gear-heads whose ambition it is to push the envelope now have to go to stupid lengths to achieve their goals.

Yes,thats true but you forget to mention these things are getting more "junk" piled on and "muscle cars" are becoming multi-purpose.Who the hell thought up a 4 door Charger? Or a GT500 that wieghts 3,800 pounds,on a mustang platform that should be 3,300lbs or less?

Honestly,GM's corvette is really that last "true" muscle car being made now,but then then kill its full potential with computer programing.

Plus,theres always the last factor,can your average Joe really handle 500+ Hp? I got a friend who thinks his 97' Toyota Avalon with some pos v6 is road melting fast,I think what he would do with a vehicle like my Lightning,it would be up-side down in a ditch right now; if it wasnt wrapped around a teleophone pole after trying to "drift".

 

[speedytang]

Here is one for ya. My wife was looking for something sporty that could handle well and accelerate at a nice pace and still use it for a family car if need be. We wanted something a few years old to save on the wallet. We went to 8 different dealerships and she found the car she wanted which totally shocked me. We have owned my Mustang 15+ years and she has owned early and late Corvettes to list our more recent performance cars. What does my wife pick, a 2004 Subaru Forester 5speed XT. The thing is a Beast. This car/truck/mini SUV is totally stock. We took it over the weekend to the track and she ran a [email protected] mph. The best 60' was a 1.89 and it spun for 5-6' before all 4 tires would dig in. She shocked the crap out of a 2004 GTO on one pass and he had to look under the hood when we had it open. This thing is a WRX with the STI engine. We had a late 97+ Mustang Cobra try to pass my wife on the way home and at a 65mph roll she cooked the dude. I enjoy my '89 with Twin Turbos but how this little 2.5 Boxer can do what it does with 12psi and Traction what I would give for the Subie Traction on my Mustang. I was watching a older video I have and they talked about the Chevelle SS454 turning mid 15's and it was flying. Things have really changed when NHRA last year changed the rules on roll bars because to many stock cars are in the low 13's and high 12's and they still get 25mpg. A great time if you have the cash to buy the machines and afford the insurance.

 

[BigHairyMonkey]

yea i think about this all the time and it makes me sad haha. But then again i go to the track and realize that these people with the 'FAST' cars cant drive to save their life and on the street i can say i hold my own. My last visit to the track i witnessed a bolt on Ws6 go 14.01s@110mph, a GT500 go 13.5s@112, and a viper run somewhere in the 13s. I guess it doesn't bother me when i think that my tired 165,000 mile motor w/ just an intake & exhaust propels my car to high 13s w/ a dying t-lok and god knows how many vac leaks/little misc probs/etc. You pretty much go as fast as you pay for. I dont really want to start a 'well if put as much money into my car as you spent on your new one it'd be just as fast' type of speech but i think it certainly applies here. Sure the new zo6's, STIs, etc are so much quicker than cars from the early 90s but how much do they cost. For the price of a ZO6 i can buy 3 fox bodies, have them all run low 10s and still have money left over for a daily driver. Like usual, it all comes down to what your preference is, and what your intent is with your vehicle. Do you want to go stupid fast for as cheap as possible and lose out on drivabilty, comfort, etc. Or do you want a car that looks as good as it is fast with a quality interior, turn key reliability, etc. You pick what you want and put your money towards it

 

[foxmustangman]

I started putting mods on my 5.0 (just small ones) but i'm not spending the big bucks, i'll just save and put a 5.0 Cammer in it...and then i'll mod THAT

 

[89_demon_lx]

I also find it absolutely amazing that there are cars pushing 400+ horsepower that the average person can buy and are equipped with all the necessary gadgets to make them daily drivable. It is just the natural progression of the auto industry. I also think we should cherish our foxes as they may one day be on the speed channel being auctioned off just like the muscle cars of the 60's/ 70's are today. Just imagine what kind of cash a mint 93 cobra/cobra R with only like 36 miles will bring in 10-15 years from now. I guess what im trying to say is, these new grocery getting rockets the car companies are bringing out are awesome and we should be thankful that they are there to take us to autozone when our "classics" are up on jack stands in the garage. I will say this though, there is a certain rawness about the fox mustang that no other car can duplicate which is why i believe they will always be respected and sought after even if they are'nt always the first to cross the finish line.

 

[GTOreturns]

You dont have to be a gear head today to go fast. Its pretty sad when factory AWD "Subaru" can smoke any GTO ever made, or the even the famed LS-6
Times have changed, for the better in my book!

 

[Boss 351]

I'm feeling a little nostalgic lately about a time before I built cars. In the muscle car era, a car in the 13s was pretty fast, and cars in the 12s were smokin' fast. It seems to me that now if your car is in the 12s, you're just par for the course. When the 5.0s came out, they were fast. Read the old magazines and get a taste for how people raved about 'em. A modern gear-head with a 14 second "muscle" car now would be laughed at.

The LT1 was high 13s capable, not too shabby. The LS1 was raved about for about 6 years from '97 to '03 while it pretty much ruled the road. Sure there were always the gear-heads like me who refused to let their creations be outrun by factory-stock performance cars, but the average LS1 owner wasn't bound to run into anything faster unless he stopped at a drag-strip, or at the local cruise-in where he might find someone like you or I hanging out.

It's getting harder for gear-heads like us to hold an advantage over stock performance cars today. Cars from nearly every manufacturer are being produced today that come with power that is very hard for old-school gear-heads to replicate especially using naturally aspirated engines. Dodge's hemi makes around 425hp, Chevy has base-model vettes, GTOs, and soon-to-be camaros with the LS2 making at least 400hp, and a Z06 making 500hp. Terminators make over 400hp, GT500s make about 500hp. Hell, the 4 cylinders that used to be pushovers are cranking out 300+hp and have the benefit of platforms featuring AWD giving them a big advantage in traction.

And then you've got the guys like us who spent nice money and hours upon hours in the garage building, tuning, and tweaking our "muscle" cars to put down numbers that by comparison seem weak. 320rwhp is pretty damned stout for a mild h/c/i 302, which is exactly what I got out of my old 302. On my next mustang, I ran a twin-turbo that saw anywhere from a mild 400 rwhp to 450 rwhp on an aggressive tune, and even this car could not keep up with the likes of Chevy's new Z06.

I'm going ape-**** now with a combination that I figured would be untouchable for years to come - a large single turboed 331 c.i. setup that should make at least 700 rwhp on pump gas. But, before I'm even done putting the project together, chevy already has a corvette in the hole that's supercharged and should make on the order of 650 hp before the enthusiasts start tweaking it. Terminators with blower swaps are making 600+ rwhp!!

To end the rant, let me briefly summarize what I'm getting at: The progress in automotive performance technology over the last decade has been absoluty mind-bending. The kind of power that was once only available to the guys who knew all the tricks/secrets is now common-place, and available at your nearest car dealership. Gear-heads whose ambition it is to push the envelope now have to go to stupid lengths to achieve their goals.

Well then put a 32v Modular with a 2.3L supercharger in a lightweight notch and see what it can do... If you want Z06 performance, pay for it by either getting one or fixing up a lightweight fox (suspension, chassis, engine)... either way speed costs money new or used.

I see cobalt SS, SRT4's at the strip and they are FAST but still not faster than my previous Mustang which pulled 100mph with the STOCK 5.0L... now that car ran high 12 / low 13 with just heads and intake which didn't cost much considering they were used C9 heads.

The 5.0L will always be the performance staple; everyone wants to say "I beat a 5.0L" it's getting easier to say that because the 5.0L is starting to have a lot of age and more often are you going to find a finished 302 with less than factory power than a tricked out supercharged one pulling numbers past 400hp...

All in all, it all depends on how much money you want to spend.

 

[Boss 351]

same...and the sound is great i love em...my buddies tell me my car is inferior to there's... two of them have 91 and 92 civic hatch..there the only rice i know and i refuse to ride in there car.... my buddy with the 92 goes..

HIM: dude you see my new car!
ME: nope
HIM: you got to come check it out
ME: sure give me 30 mins ill be there
HIM: i only paid 6,500 for it too....man i got a hell a deal
ME: View attachment 377048
HIM: so ya like it man here hop in ill take ya around the block in it...
ME: *im still laughing at this point*
HIM: bounces it off the rev limiter and dumps it in first bogs and dies
ME:
HIM: hmm.... be right back gotta grab something ill try that again in a sec
ME: whatever *still laughing*
HIM: ok got the oil
ME:
HIM: ok we got a half court on each wheel...ill get it to spin this time
ME: ok
HIM: dumps off read line again and spins for a sec then bogs and dies
ME:
HIM: pretty cool aint it
ME: not so much
HIM: why?
ME: you needed oil to break lose
HIM: So.....dont you to get your mustang to do a burnout...
ME:
HIM: whats so funny?
ME: YOU
HIM: whats so funny?
ME: YOU
HIM: why?
ME: you just asked me if i needed to use oil on my wheels to get them to break lose
HIM: whys that so funny?
ME: because mines a V8 dumb ass.
HIM: oh...i thought it was 4 cyl too?
ME: no


we all made fun of him for weeks for this one...

OMG, hit him with a baseball bat for me... oil under the wheels, I think he got ripped off because a modded Civic CAN spin the wheels... I mean FWD isn't hard to do. I can do that with the 106hp Accent

 

[1991vert]

won't there be OBDIII which will make it nearly impossible to mod your car?

 

[Boss 351]

Boost and EFI is going to be the only way to go for power imo... The time for the 500+ cubic inche engines with RAW on demand power will come to an end... 1hp per cubic inch is pretty bad these days... we should be able to stretch this to 2-3hp per cubic inch (using forced induction). Even the H22 honda gets 1.5hp per cubic inch, that kind of "power" would give us around 450hp on a 5.0L which isn't too hard to do.

 

[SVT32VDOHC]

I agree with the thread started 100%. What do you have to do anymore?? My dad bought a GT500, and that car is insane. The brakes, the wheels and tires, suspension, 6spd, 500HP, and it rides like a luxury sports car that is rocket powered. Smooth unmatched performance. My Cobra feels like a rattle trap bucket POS compared to his car. I am so envious,

 

[mob]

The problem of can a normal person handle all that power can be easily taken care of. Just higher the price of the car, and give the buyer a free racing/driving course.

As for the new cars and technology, I love em, our cars are easy to work on, but just plain old.

 

[25thmustang]

All you need is money and a little effort. A fox with the right suspension, the right driveline combo, and the right look can easily hold it's own with the new stuff out there. Sure it sucks having a 250 hp Mustang and having to worry about Accords, Maximas, and Subarus, but then again that might be a reminder it is time to start waking your car up. It doesnt take much to go fast in a fox (in a straight line or turns) just takes the effort and a little money.

 

[NKau]

As for the new cars and technology, I love em, our cars are easy to work on, but just plain old.

Pretty fair assessment. To quote the latest die-hard movie, fox mustangs are "like a rolex watch in a digital era".

Fox mustangs have the following they do because they are both easy and fun to work on. This is where owning the 'rolex' comes in handy. You can get into one at a relatively affordable price, and build it up when time and money allow if that's what you want to do. The beauty of the fox is that you can buy one and leave it stock for a fun weekend cruiser, build it into a 9 second track terror, or anything in between..........and it's something most automotive enthusiasts can accomplish in their own garage.

The new performance oriented cars coming out are pretty spectacular in terms of off the lot performance; nobody will debate that. The difference is most in this hobby would have a much harder time dropping 25-35K on a new car v.s. the intial 2-6K investment of purchasing something like a fox mustang, 3rd gen camaro, or 1G DSM.

A lot of guys on this forum would probably love to own an '03 Cobra, but it's not realistic or attainable for a lot of people.

In my case, fox mustangs were STILL all the rage when I was in middle school/high school from '92-'99, and I always wanted one. I bought my first 5.0 when I was 19, and now at the age of 25 have finally finished building the car I wanted in high school.

A lot of the fun in owning a car like the 5.0 for me is putting them together. Lots of good memories working on my cars with friends, etc. I take a lot of pride in the fact that my car was BUILT, not BOUGHT. Not sure I'd have a lot of fun working on any of the newer stuff coming out today; I look under the hoods of these cars and get confused.

I got beat at a recent car show by some guy who bought a new Stage 3 Roush convertible (among all the other cars that beat me), and brought it to the show in an enclosed trailer. If buying a brand new car, and beating someone at the track or at a car show makes you feel good, then by all means, that's totally cool.

My car is pretty damn cool to me; it doesn't bother me the 95% of people think our cars are ugly or uncool. My car was put together for me, and nobody else. I like the fact that you can't go out, write a check, and get a car identical to mine either.

As far as performance goes, I'm pretty happy with the h/c/i that I just did. I don't care if a new camaro can beat me at the track or not. If I get bored with the car, I'll probably throw a small supercharger on it.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I'm going to stop this rant before I begin sounding too stupid. Thanks for listening

 

[ninety15.0]

All you need is money and a little effort. A fox with the right suspension, the right driveline combo, and the right look can easily hold it's own with the new stuff out there. Sure it sucks having a 250 hp Mustang and having to worry about Accords, Maximas, and Subarus, but then again that might be a reminder it is time to start waking your car up. It doesnt take much to go fast in a fox (in a straight line or turns) just takes the effort and a little money.

As much as i would like to agree with you, i just cant. Here's why: So you already have a fox and you want to hang with STi's, GTO's, Evo's, and maybe new cobra's, corvettes. Here's what you would have to do.

Motor: At least 400-500 hp which means either a big inch HCI N/A motor or a smaller HCI + FI motor. Either way the motor combo will cost you at least 5000-7,000 to do it right with all the supporting mods (exhaust, MAF/inj, fuel system, tuning...blah blah blah) it adds up.

Dirvetrain: Good tranny, clutch, driveshaft, shifter, rear end all adds up to at least 2500

Suspension: Full MM grip box plus additional needed parts, not to mention tires and wheels....i cannot even guess a price on this...probably a couple grand at the very least.

Brakes: you all know the deal...2 grand to do it right

Weight reduction/ balance: This means taking a DD type car and making it a purpose built race car to achieve a decent weight balance and drop some pounds.

So right now we are at 10-15k and thats assuming you do all the work yourself and you might have a car thats as fast or faster than the others, and it may handle/stop pretty well. But heres what it doesnt have:
Cup holders, comfy seats, a quiet ride, a nice HVAC system, nice ride quality, traction/stability control, any sort of usefulness in the winter, 25+ highway mpg, stock factory backed reliability/warranty!!!! Emissions legal? probably not....

The real question is how much are you willing to pay to turn the key and be fast...who knows

 

[bentley429]

As much as i would like to agree with you, i just cant. Here's why: So you already have a fox and you want to hang with STi's, GTO's, Evo's, and maybe new cobra's, corvettes. Here's what you would have to do.

Motor: At least 400-500 hp which means either a big inch HCI N/A motor or a smaller HCI + FI motor. Either way the motor combo will cost you at least 5000-7,000 to do it right with all the supporting mods (exhaust, MAF/inj, fuel system, tuning...blah blah blah) it adds up.

Dirvetrain: Good tranny, clutch, driveshaft, shifter, rear end all adds up to at least 2500

Suspension: Full MM grip box plus additional needed parts, not to mention tires and wheels....i cannot even guess a price on this...probably a couple grand at the very least.

Brakes: you all know the deal...2 grand to do it right

Weight reduction/ balance: This means taking a DD type car and making it a purpose built race car to achieve a decent weight balance and drop some pounds.

So right now we are at 10-15k and thats assuming you do all the work yourself and you might have a car thats as fast or faster than the others, and it may handle/stop pretty well. But heres what it doesnt have:
Cup holders, comfy seats, a quiet ride, a nice HVAC system, nice ride quality, traction/stability control, any sort of usefulness in the winter, 25+ highway mpg, stock factory backed reliability/warranty!!!! Emissions legal? probably not....

The real question is how much are you willing to pay to turn the key and be fast...who knows

I agree with this thread basicly until this point. Pretty sure Iam understanding you right but I just want to butt in alittle. As for evo's, sti's, and gto's you dont need much to stomp them. A some what mild h/c/i car would do the trick no problem. As for say 03/04 cobras and newer z06's NOT the c6 thats alittle more tricky but can be done for a fraction of the price of those cars like bighairy was saying. A reliable decent looking high 9 low 10 second car can be done for around 20k-22k(I havent built one but thats a quick reasonable amount correct me if iam wrong). Will it get the best mpg? No prob not, but atleast to me thats not what this stuff is all about. My car makes some decent power and is amazing on the highway for what it is and its age. But on the other side of things its fantasic to see the kinda power these new cars are making. I know for me my next car will either be a LS1 or 03/04 cobra.

 

[superspec]

Here is one for ya. My wife was looking for something sporty that could handle well and accelerate at a nice pace and still use it for a family car if need be. We wanted something a few years old to save on the wallet. We went to 8 different dealerships and she found the car she wanted which totally shocked me. We have owned my Mustang 15+ years and she has owned early and late Corvettes to list our more recent performance cars. What does my wife pick, a 2004 Subaru Forester 5speed XT. The thing is a Beast. This car/truck/mini SUV is totally stock. We took it over the weekend to the track and she ran a [email protected] mph. The best 60' was a 1.89 and it spun for 5-6' before all 4 tires would dig in. She shocked the crap out of a 2004 GTO on one pass and he had to look under the hood when we had it open. This thing is a WRX with the STI engine. We had a late 97+ Mustang Cobra try to pass my wife on the way home and at a 65mph roll she cooked the dude. I enjoy my '89 with Twin Turbos but how this little 2.5 Boxer can do what it does with 12psi and Traction what I would give for the Subie Traction on my Mustang. I was watching a older video I have and they talked about the Chevelle SS454 turning mid 15's and it was flying. Things have really changed when NHRA last year changed the rules on roll bars because to many stock cars are in the low 13's and high 12's and they still get 25mpg. A great time if you have the cash to buy the machines and afford the insurance.

12s for the subie are just a call away. cobb will set you up.

i grew up with mustangs and moved over to imports because it was a challenge to make them fast. after dumping 25k+ into my nissan and not being able to drive it everyday anymore i picked up the fox. its still stock for now but itll eventually end up getting stupid.