Goofy T5 Cheap Upgrade Queastion

[raser13]

Ok guys and gals. I'm probably going to get some weird looks from you but i need to pick your brains.

I need to know what are the most bang for your buck upgrades you can do to these trannies? Their general cost? And what ones you think are must do's regardless of price?

No weird faces right? Here's were i get them. The reason i ask is I'm wanting to put one in my 1973 Amc Javelin. They are pretty much a bolt in upgrade to the car. From 3 speed to five speed. Is all i have to do is get a bell housing from an 80s jeep, a t5, and an adaptor u joint. And move the hole in my tranny tunnel. That's pretty much it.(there's a little more but not worth mentioning)


The reason I'm here asking is that the amc guys are mostly purists and go a little nuts when you modify. Especially when you cross the company line. And well who better to ask about a stang tranny then stang people? I'm hoping you can look past the Frankensteining and help me out with some knowledge.

I'm going to be getting this tranny out of the local pick and pull so things to look out for both bad and good. Like is there better years to look for? Or better editions? And how can you tell from the outside? Vin code? Stamping?

Anything else you can know of that I'm just not knowledgeable enough to ask let me have it. And any info at all will be great. Thanks.

 

[LILCBRA]

I'm not the foremost authority, but I'll give it a shot. Sounds like a nice ride that it's going into! Known a couple of guys that had them. Anyways, what engine is it going behind? Do you know the depth of the Jeep bell that you're going to use? I ask because there are a couple of different variations that you may find in a Pull-a-Part. 94-95 5.0 cars input shaft is a bit longer than the first generation Fox cars. 4 cylinder T5s have a smaller pilot diameter than 5.0 T5s. Of course, the later model T5 you are able to grab, generally the better it will be since they will have all of the previous revisions done. I'm about to run to work, but you should be able to find a website somewhere that gives tag ID numbers and what that tag says the transmission is from and it's specs and torque rating. Good luck!!

 

[raser13]

It's going behind the amc equivilent of the ford 5.0L. The 304. I don't. Remember the depth of the bell housing, but from what I've been told it's the right depth for the longer shaft. And I'd need a tranny for the six or eight cylinder. I don't think the one for the four would hold long with that motor and the weight of the javelin.

 

[Boosted92LX]

It's going behind the amc equivilent of the ford 5.0L. The 304. I don't. Remember the depth of the bell housing, but from what I've been told it's the right depth for the longer shaft. And I'd need a tranny for the six or eight cylinder. I don't think the one for the four would hold long with that motor and the weight of the javelin.

How many ftlbs torque are you going to hit it with? The reason i ask is these trannys will handle fair engine upgrades, but tend to give up the ghost at 350-400 lbft of tq. (Sometimes less depending on how you treat them) there are a few companies that sell upgraded internals..Astro comes to mind, but the parts arent cheap. A lot of mustang guys ditch the t5 for a tremec 3550 or tko. None cheap.

 

[jrichker]

On the tail shaft of the transmission, there will be a stamped aluminum tag. The tag will have a number on it that you can cross reference to the chart below. There is no other way to find out what type of T5 it is without disassembling it. All the rest of the numbers on the outside of the T5 case are part numbers which are not unique to any particular T5 model.

Remember that 94 - 97 T5's have a longer input shaft (about 11/16” longer) and can only be used with a 94-95 bell housing unless you modify or replace the input shaft.

T5's used with a 4 cylinder have a 3.93 first gear, reduced torque ratings and an input shaft pilot diameter that is smaller that the T5 used for V6 & V8 engines. The pilot diameter is .59" compared to the .668" used on V6 & V8 T5's. It requires a different pilot bearing to be used with a V6 or V8. The pilot bearing you need is for a Ford Ranger diesel from AutoZone part #14672

 

[raser13]

I'm running a stock 304. So it should be 150-250ft/lbs. I'm also not going to be mashing it off the line at every light. The main reason i want to go to a five speed is for drivability and fuel economy.

The extra gears will bring my rpms way down at highway speeds. Which will add years to the life of my engine. And bring my mpg up a good clip.

But a five speed stick will be a little nicer off the line than a three speed auto as well, should i want to get up to speed a little faster every now and then.

As for the shaft length. I'll have to check the stats on the jeep bell housing and get back with you. So that maybe you guys can help me narrow down a year.

I did hear some mutterings about the stock shifter tower set up was weak? Any good aftermarket recomendations? Or is this just a horrid rumour?

 

[RangerJoe]

Of you are referring to the stock shifter itself, they leave some to be desired in the feel and quickshifting department. As for strength, they will be plenty strong for what you are doing.

A Pro 5.0 shifter, MGW, and Steeda are all nice upgrades.

Joe

 

[7991LXnSHO]

AMC folks being snooty about putting other brand parts in? I sold enough repair parts to know AMC was not always picky about who made their stock parts. T-5 variants were in non Ford vehicles from the factory. If you are not going to abuse it and use slicks, go for it. If you are, get one of the upgrades listed above. Put a plain shift knob on it and most folks will not look any farther.

A shorty shifter, or at least one with adjustable stops, will help keep from bending parts (like shift forks?) in a hard driving situation.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Hard to say if grabbing a 30 year old T5 from a boneyard will greet oyu with a nice, like-new trans or not. By this point, any T5 not rebuilt is used and abused.

Sky is the limit on mods though. They sell complete aftermarket gearsets for this transmissions.

What I'd do for 250 ft-lbs though? Grab a solid 90-93 Mustang version of the trans, put on a steel bearing retainer, a quality shifter, change the fluid, and call it a day.

Beyond that...home much do you want to spend?

 

[MFE92]

...and carefully set the input shaft endplay to .001 or even preloaded .001 or .002

 

[89oem]

These guys have a ton of good info on the T5

http://moderndriveline.com/md_faqs/T5_1.shtml

 

[raser13]

I already have to add a steel bearing retainer out of a jeep to make it work with the bell housing. Ironically t5s were in jeeps and other amcs. But they were evidently pretty weak trannys, and the shifter was off to the side of the tranny. So it doesn't line up with the stock shifter hole. And yeah some of the amcers will give you trouble because it's "not an amc t5". Like i said, a little snooty.

so it looks like I'm shooting for a 90-93 trans. Adding a short throw shifter. I kinda wanted one of those anyhow. And change the fluid , which was kind of a given. Speaking of which, what fluid goes in them? Good old gear lube? Auto tranny fluid? Something else???

As for money being spent. Right now It's at a minimum. I'm resurrecting the car from a junk yard itself. It didn't have a drive train in it. Everything so far for it has came out of a bone yard. The 304 and auto came out of a wrecking yard. Is all i did to them so far was change the gaskets,filters, and fluids. And plugs and wires on the motor.

It drives. But that three speed auto just has the engine up way to high. Hence the tranny swap. Right now It's a get ti back up on four kegs and running kind of thing. Once i do that i think it will be a little easier to get my wife to loosen the purse strings a little and gove me a bit bigger budget. Then I'll start going through and rebuilding it right section by section. But it's always better to have the info ahead of time.

Sounds like this is a good all around tranny to put in at this point. This car will never have slicks on it. And I'm old enough that i got that street racing bug out of my system . This will just be a nice cruiser to take out on nice days and go to shows. Maybe once in a while indulge my testosterone and mash it off a light. It is a sports car after all. But that will happen like maybe once a year.? So i don't really need a drag set up.

Now if i go to getting the power bug I'll know to look for a better trans to go with the bigger engines.

I want to thank you guys for all the help and info so far. It's been a great experience here so far. Much better that the screams i got at the amc site when i asked about this conversion.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I
so it looks like I'm shooting for a 90-93 trans. Adding a short throw shifter. I kinda wanted one of those anyhow. And change the fluid , which was kind of a given. Speaking of which, what fluid goes in them? Good old gear lube? Auto tranny fluid? Something else???.

2.8 quarts of ATF/



And, just in case you haven't found this, for reference

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techarticles/t5rebuildmanual.pdf

 

[A5literMan]

I already have to add a steel bearing retainer out of a jeep to make it work with the bell housing. Ironically t5s were in jeeps and other amcs. But they were evidently pretty weak trannys, and the shifter was off to the side of the tranny. So it doesn't line up with the stock shifter hole. And yeah some of the amcers will give you trouble because it's "not an amc t5". Like i said, a little snooty.

so it looks like I'm shooting for a 90-93 trans. Adding a short throw shifter. I kinda wanted one of those anyhow. And change the fluid , which was kind of a given. Speaking of which, what fluid goes in them? Good old gear lube? Auto tranny fluid? Something else???

As for money being spent. Right now It's at a minimum. I'm resurrecting the car from a junk yard itself. It didn't have a drive train in it. Everything so far for it has came out of a bone yard. The 304 and auto came out of a wrecking yard. Is all i did to them so far was change the gaskets,filters, and fluids. And plugs and wires on the motor.

It drives. But that three speed auto just has the engine up way to high. Hence the tranny swap. Right now It's a get ti back up on four kegs and running kind of thing. Once i do that i think it will be a little easier to get my wife to loosen the purse strings a little and gove me a bit bigger budget. Then I'll start going through and rebuilding it right section by section. But it's always better to have the info ahead of time.

Sounds like this is a good all around tranny to put in at this point. This car will never have slicks on it. And I'm old enough that i got that street racing bug out of my system . This will just be a nice cruiser to take out on nice days and go to shows. Maybe once in a while indulge my testosterone and mash it off a light. It is a sports car after all. But that will happen like maybe once a year.? So i don't really need a drag set up.

Now if i go to getting the power bug I'll know to look for a better trans to go with the bigger engines.

I want to thank you guys for all the help and info so far. It's been a great experience here so far. Much better that the screams i got at the amc site when i asked about this conversion.

If you want a more "factory" looking shifter I suggest looking at a Hurst. Still a superior than stock product with short enough shifts but with a longer handle. Throw a cue ball on it and be done.

 

[raser13]

I was kind of wanting to put a hust t handle as shifter ball any how so the hurst set up might be the easiest option all around. I'll look into the more once i get the tranny on the bench in a week or so. I'm starting the hunt for a decent one today!

 

[rd]

From a recent experience, I would put it together and see how the transmission works. You want a WC T5 trans out of a 87 or later Mustang.

I did an install of an S10 T5 into my 66 Chevelle behind a 350 Chevy. Got it all in there and drove it, sounded like rocks in the dryer. Had to put in a new countershaft, $120, but was in stock at the driveshaft store. I looked at using the Jeep GM four banger bell housing for my t5 project, but used a repro Chevy unit.

I would put the trans in, drive it. then see if you want different gears, or a better shifter, etc.