GT in need of IRS

TeamCaffeineGT

TeamCaffeineGT

Member
Mar 16, 2009
193
15
18
Springfield, MO
#1
Hey all,
I was thinking the other day about converting my 01' GT from the solid 8.8 to a IRS setup. I enjoy curvey roads more than the straight shot. :) I was reading several different threads about the swap and I know I would need to alter the drive shaft to accomidate the new rear axle. I am going to run a side exhaust so a cobra cat back would not be needed. What other items would I need to plan for in this swap?

Thanks,
TeamCaffeineGT

P.S. I reside in Springfield, MO for any potential Cobra IRS to live axle swap seekers. :D
 
#2
:eek:

I'd buy a cobra, not convert a GT. Waste of time and money if you ask me. GT's don't handle that bad anyway. I have the 8.8 live rear axle on my converted boss 281 and I keep up with z06s in SCCA events. It's more about the driver than it is the car. If anything, the IRS would just make it feel like you're not going "balls to the wall" when you take a 90 degree turn at 35 mph, but it's not going to make YOU personally better at making the turn. Only practice can do that.

The IRS just gives you a little advantage, but nothing compares to the skills of a honed driver. Do you know how many IRS and Cobra drivers that I've seen get slower times than me and other live axle cars (sometimes even Camaros!!)?? Hundreds. Even the guys who drive the Vettes and Porsches sometimes get left behind. It's because most of these sunday drivers and weekend racers just go out and buy a Cobra, or a Vette, z06, Porsche, whatever you name it....simply because they think that buying a title gives them the ability to drive faster and better than everyone else. The Cobra is more of an engine beast than it is a suspension workover. The Vette's handling is centered moreso on it's center of gravity and light weight. Porsches are similar. The rear axle is just getting the power to the ground, and the IRS just does it slightly different to aid the driver. At best, you should consider IRS something that was invented to help people who CAN'T master the live axle.

I'm sure a few Cobra drivers will have their tid bits to say about my response; but they know it's true. Anyone can beat you if they are a better driver.
 
#5
calboss281 said:
:eek:

I'd buy a cobra, not convert a GT. Waste of time and money if you ask me. GT's don't handle that bad anyway. I have the 8.8 live rear axle on my converted boss 281 and I keep up with z06s in SCCA events. It's more about the driver than it is the car. If anything, the IRS would just make it feel like you're not going "balls to the wall" when you take a 90 degree turn at 35 mph, but it's not going to make YOU personally better at making the turn. Only practice can do that.

The IRS just gives you a little advantage, but nothing compares to the skills of a honed driver. Do you know how many IRS and Cobra drivers that I've seen get slower times than me and other live axle cars (sometimes even Camaros!!)?? Hundreds. Even the guys who drive the Vettes and Porsches sometimes get left behind. It's because most of these sunday drivers and weekend racers just go out and buy a Cobra, or a Vette, z06, Porsche, whatever you name it....simply because they think that buying a title gives them the ability to drive faster and better than everyone else. The Cobra is more of an engine beast than it is a suspension workover. The Vette's handling is centered moreso on it's center of gravity and light weight. Porsches are similar. The rear axle is just getting the power to the ground, and the IRS just does it slightly different to aid the driver. At best, you should consider IRS something that was invented to help people who CAN'T master the live axle.

I'm sure a few Cobra drivers will have their tid bits to say about my response; but they know it's true. Anyone can beat you if they are a better driver.
Click to expand...
I agree with you about driver proficiency, but this thread is not about how good of a driver calboss281 is than California Cobra drivers. (No Offense Intended) The thread is about the car and making the car better. With your list of mods, surely you can agree. :)

P.S. Not everyone has enough cash to buy a Cobra.
 
#7
blksq10psi said:
why??? keep the live axle and work ovr the suspension
Click to expand...
Why? Well my intrests are much different than those who want to go as fast as possible in a straight line. I have upgraded the suspension with FRPP springs, as well as replaced the worn busings with stock replacements. I did not do my research about the poly bushings until recently. I really enjoy the cars' handling, but it just makes sense. If a Cobra owner wants to get the most from the strip they tend to perform the swap, leaving a perfectly good IRS for someone who likes to carve corners. :)
 
#11
TeamCaffeineGT said:
Why? Well my intrests are much different than those who want to go as fast as possible in a straight line. I have upgraded the suspension with FRPP springs, as well as replaced the worn busings with stock replacements. I did not do my research about the poly bushings until recently. I really enjoy the cars' handling, but it just makes sense. If a Cobra owner wants to get the most from the strip they tend to perform the swap, leaving a perfectly good IRS for someone who likes to carve corners. :)
Click to expand...

to me it sounds like you have a mostly stock suspension setup...

if your ready to spend the dough and make the swap to IRS you better consider a few things... Only after you spend a signifcant amount of money on the irs is it gonna be much better that your current setup..

if your really interested in corner carving, you need to spend some money... irs swaps arent ceap, but your comparing a mostly stock rear setup to something you think is gonna ride on rails..

FRPP springs and new stock bushings... dude... no way... i dont have FRPP springs and never will...
you need to buy adjustable lower control arms, adjustable upper control arms and then coilovers on some good shocks for the rear of the car... then add a panhard bar and potentially torque arm if you want to ditch the UCA's...

the stock rubber bushings that you "replaced" are junk... and in the stock control arms... which are junk...

A solid axle with a panhard bar, tubular control arms and coilovers and a nice adjustable sway bar (like what MM offers) will get your rear up to par... then you have to do the front to match...

Dont bash the solid axle when it sounds like your using a stock setup... your gonna easily drop 1500 into the irs swap unless ur getting one for dirt cheap...then you need springs/coilovers for that and some more suspension parts... you could have a fully built rear suspension for the price of the IRS

i dont mean to burst your bubble, but they are right... you want IRS id recommend just buying a cobra... Espesially since a well built GT suspension could out handle the power a relitvley stock gt puts out


dc
 
#12
TeamCaffeineGT said:
I agree with you about driver proficiency, but this thread is not about how good of a driver calboss281 is than California Cobra drivers. (No Offense Intended) The thread is about the car and making the car better. With your list of mods, surely you can agree. :)

P.S. Not everyone has enough cash to buy a Cobra.
Click to expand...

I understand your post, however you're mistaken if you think that I was trying to purport my driving abilities as the focus of this thread. I was merely using them as an example of experience (an unfounded one at that....I could be BSing you all, but whatever). Overhauling the rear axle to have an IRS is probably the most expensive thing you can do to a mustang short of building up a short block. Not everyone has enough cash to buy a cobra? Well if you don't have enough cash to buy a Cobra you have no business overhauling a GT to have IRS. A GT costs what, 24 grand? A good overhaul would cost what....3-4 more? Could have bought a convertible. And it is WAY cheaper to buy the Cobra straight up than it is to transform a GT into one. There is no arguing on that.

Plus people on this board should never get into the mind set that by spending money they can make their car faster and make themselves better drivers. If anything, the only money spending that will make you a better driver are racing lessons. In my original post, I merely wanted the author of this thread to fully consider what it is he is planning on doing, and to consider the alternatives that would save him time and money...and still get him the same track times.
 
#13
TeamCaffeineGT said:
Why? Well my intrests are much different than those who want to go as fast as possible in a straight line. I have upgraded the suspension with FRPP springs, as well as replaced the worn busings with stock replacements. I did not do my research about the poly bushings until recently. I really enjoy the cars' handling, but it just makes sense. If a Cobra owner wants to get the most from the strip they tend to perform the swap, leaving a perfectly good IRS for someone who likes to carve corners. :)
Click to expand...

I find your sentence "it just makes sense" to be the most interesting. What about it makes sense? Because IRS = Good handling? This is the only deduction I can think of that would lead someone to assume that it "makes sense" to do an IRS upgrade because he likes to "carve corners".

As I said before, the IRS only assists the driver, it doesn't make the car perform better. The ENGINE makes the car perform better, the ford racing bushings, springs, control arms, and sway bars....THOSE help the car perform better. The IRS just helps the driver maintain control and stability of power distribution during turns. The live axle does this as well, just not as efficiently. The live axle uses a limited slip to perform a similar action to the IRS (shifting power to outside wheel), but the IRS does it more effective because it doesn't need a clutch to transfer the power to one side.

It does not make the car faster. It does not make the car perform better. All it will do is help YOU perform better. If you don't perform well out of the box, an IRS upgrade won't do a single thing. I'm not saying you can't perform well, I don't know anything about your driving experience. But I think it would be unwise to trade out the rear axle on a daily driver car just because you want to "carve corners".
 
#18
calboss281 said:
I find your sentence "it just makes sense" to be the most interesting. What about it makes sense? Because IRS = Good handling? This is the only deduction I can think of that would lead someone to assume that it "makes sense" to do an IRS upgrade because he likes to "carve corners".

As I said before, the IRS only assists the driver, it doesn't make the car perform better. The ENGINE makes the car perform better, the ford racing bushings, springs, control arms, and sway bars....THOSE help the car perform better. The IRS just helps the driver maintain control and stability of power distribution during turns. The live axle does this as well, just not as efficiently. The live axle uses a limited slip to perform a similar action to the IRS (shifting power to outside wheel), but the IRS does it more effective because it doesn't need a clutch to transfer the power to one side.

It does not make the car faster. It does not make the car perform better. All it will do is help YOU perform better. If you don't perform well out of the box, an IRS upgrade won't do a single thing. I'm not saying you can't perform well, I don't know anything about your driving experience. But I think it would be unwise to trade out the rear axle on a daily driver car just because you want to "carve corners".
Click to expand...
What i meant by "it just makes sense" is that if a Cobra owner wanted a live 8.8 from a GT and was willing to trader straight across for the 8.8 in my car, then I would have a Cobra IRS on a swap. Thus the cost of the project would be minimal, not 3-4 K as you propsed earlier. :)
 
#19
TeamCaffeineGT said:
What i meant by "it just makes sense" is that if a Cobra owner wanted a live 8.8 from a GT and was willing to trader straight across for the 8.8 in my car, then I would have a Cobra IRS on a swap. Thus the cost of the project would be minimal, not 3-4 K as you propsed earlier. :)
Click to expand...

I guess you're missing my overall point:

You'd be a better driver if you mastered the live axle THEN upgraded (or bought a new car), versus just upgrading because you know that the better car has it.
 
#20
bwahl602 said:
to me it sounds like you have a mostly stock suspension setup...

if your ready to spend the dough and make the swap to IRS you better consider a few things... Only after you spend a signifcant amount of money on the irs is it gonna be much better that your current setup..

if your really interested in corner carving, you need to spend some money... irs swaps arent ceap, but your comparing a mostly stock rear setup to something you think is gonna ride on rails..

FRPP springs and new stock bushings... dude... no way... i dont have FRPP springs and never will...
you need to buy adjustable lower control arms, adjustable upper control arms and then coilovers on some good shocks for the rear of the car... then add a panhard bar and potentially torque arm if you want to ditch the UCA's...

the stock rubber bushings that you "replaced" are junk... and in the stock control arms... which are junk...

A solid axle with a panhard bar, tubular control arms and coilovers and a nice adjustable sway bar (like what MM offers) will get your rear up to par... then you have to do the front to match...

Dont bash the solid axle when it sounds like your using a stock setup... your gonna easily drop 1500 into the irs swap unless ur getting one for dirt cheap...then you need springs/coilovers for that and some more suspension parts... you could have a fully built rear suspension for the price of the IRS

i dont mean to burst your bubble, but they are right... you want IRS id recommend just buying a cobra... Espesially since a well built GT suspension could out handle the power a relitvley stock gt puts out


dc
Click to expand...
I meant no bashing of the solid 8.8 unit. "I really enjoy the cars' handling." was what I previously posted. I agree coil overs are the best route.

Once again we are missing the big pictue. I am talking about performing an "IRS SWAP" not an IRS build-up. The major difference is the cost of a swap with a Cobra owner would be minimal. The cost of a build-up would be very large. If I was talking about a build-up, then I would whole heartedly expect you all to raise red flags. I would much rather spend 3-4K on a supercharger, turbo or NA build.
 
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