GTE-650 project

mtbdoc · Mar 24, 2006

Hmmm...is this a conspiracy to get me working on my 65 2+2? I have been abusing my finances for parts on my 66 which HOPEFULLY will become operational this summer.

Then again, I do happen to have an extra 331 stroker/AFR/KB 2.2/Lakewood/TKO600 that are being set aside for later use [I just HAD to do a blown 408 for the convertible...someone RESCUE ME from this insanity!]. Obviously these parts would need to be "approved for use".

Rear suspension? I just did the preorder on the EvM Watts link for the 2+2...they are putting together an entire 3 link setup. Do you have thoughts in that area yet?

SN65 · Mar 24, 2006

mtbdoc said:
Hmmm...is this a conspiracy to get me working on my 65 2+2? I have been abusing my finances for parts on my 66 which HOPEFULLY will become operational this summer.

Then again, I do happen to have an extra 331 stroker/AFR/KB 2.2/Lakewood/TKO600 that are being set aside for later use [I just HAD to do a blown 408 for the convertible...someone RESCUE ME from this insanity!]. Obviously these parts would need to be "approved for use".

Rear suspension? I just did the preorder on the EvM Watts link for the 2+2...they are putting together an entire 3 link setup. Do you have thoughts in that area yet?

Hi Doc,

I have not givin the drivetrain all that much consideration as of yet. I was thinking that we would have to go with the 289/5.0 (just for the "look". The actual internals could be any displacement) with a stick (4,5,6 speed) and a 9" rear, but other than that, I was waiting for the "group" before making any decisions that are cast in stone. Although, the 3 link rear sounds interesting. Hummm.... I wonder if that would look "period" correct???

The things I am going to be firm about are the structural modifications, the front suspension/engine cradle design and the exterior panel mods. The car is going to have to be solid as a rock when complete and I don't want any of the mods to look cobbled together.

Sounds like you have all the basics in place. Should I pencil you in???

Bob

Jester67 · Mar 24, 2006

I think this would be a great opportunity to make a kit for installing a TKO correctly. With your infuses on structural integrity and skills not to mention you will be needing 11 of the kits anyway. It could come with a new hump support and trans tunnel section that could be welded in. I have tried to get some of the other mustang supply houses to make such a kit with no luck. But with the price and performance of the TKO I think it is time to make it easy to install in a classic.

1320stang · Mar 24, 2006

Are there any renderings showing the concept developed yet? I'm curious as to what this will end up looking like.

I'm guessing it's a whole front clip and maybe door skins, rear valance....

Having a list of major parts needed and optional parts would be nice at least.

mtbdoc · Mar 24, 2006

Bob, I sent you an email via the address on your site. I really need a better picture of what your vision is before I can commit. Just not sure what a period-correct Ferrastang/Mustarri really would be!

When you say period-correct, that would seem to be at odds with performance. Period correct includes 6" wide tires and the like...

The EvM suspension stuff is in a thread tacked to the top along with yours and the Reenmachine. But again, there stuff is not old-school.

Help me understand this a bit better.

gonzothegreat · Mar 24, 2006

bnickel · Mar 24, 2006

SN65 said:
Hi GTG,

Yes we accept and encourage international partisipation. That is everyone except the Cubans. It is not that we personally have anything against Cuba, but U.S. trade restrictions make it difficult to send and recieving materials, etc...

Bob

Bob, have you ever seen what those people in Cuba can do with sheetmetal? they could build a 57 chevy out of the sn65 and make it look stock!!!!! hell, they could take a real ferrari and make IT look like a 57 chevy!!!!

bnickel · Mar 24, 2006

here is a link to a real 250 gte for anyone that is interested in what it looks like

http://www.dennigcars.org/models/ferrari_250_gte.htm

bnickel · Mar 24, 2006

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-250GTE-3641

better and more pics

bnickel · Mar 24, 2006

makes me wish i had a 65/66 and a ****load of money.

SN65 · Mar 24, 2006

Hi All,

I have been going over the first phase of the project. Phase one would include all the chassis structural modifications, the rear suspension mounting modifications and the front K-member fabrication and installation.

The chassis modifications will include the fortification/reinforcement of the rocker panels, the installation of front torque boxes, the reinforcement of the cowl area (tying the cowl, firewall, rocker, torque box areas together), The reinforcement of the rear suspension mounting points, reinforcing the firewall, adding structure to tie the top of the shock towers back to the firewall / cowl reinforcements, adding a internal cross brace tying the “B” pillars together, reinforcement of the “B” pillars, etc….

The front suspension / engine mount is going to be fabricated similar to the current mustangs “K” member. This structure will reinforce the front frame rails and also disperse, transmit all loads up and back to the boxed firewall cowl areas.

The rear suspension modifications will include all the brackets, attachments, etc… for a 4 link setup. We may opt to go with a three link system. The type of rear suspension we will use is still up in the air.

The cost of all the materials to complete these modifications comes to $4,500.

When complete we will have one of the stiffest first generation Mustang platform ever built.

Bob

PS: I am working on drawings of the body mods. Hopefully, I will have something to show by the end of next week.

SN65 · Mar 24, 2006

bnickel said:
Bob, have you ever seen what those people in Cuba can do with sheetmetal? they could build a 57 chevy out of the sn65 and make it look stock!!!!! hell, they could take a real ferrari and make IT look like a 57 chevy!!!!

Hi B,

I am sure that they could. It was just my "international trade" humor raising it's ugly head. I am sure people from Cuba could partisipate. I would just have to ship any materials through Canada first.

Bob

bnickel · Mar 24, 2006

SN65 said:
Hi B,

I am sure that they could. It was just my "international trade" humor raising it's ugly head. I am sure people from Cuba could partisipate. I would just have to ship any materials through Canada first.

Bob

yeah, that's probably true but with the kind of craftmanship those guys have you could probably just give them dimensions and drawings and they could do the rest. have you ever seen that special on tv where they were talking about all the classic cars in Cuba? there were guys literally building parts from scratch to keep those things on the road and make them look 100% original. i mean they were literally building body parts for 57 chevy's from scratch. that's just awesome.

SN65 · Mar 24, 2006

Hi All,

Does $4,500 sound like a good price for what I described above???

Bob

mtbdoc · Mar 24, 2006

SN65 said:
Hi All,

Does $4,500 sound like a good price for what I described above???

Bob

For reinforcement alone??? Or suspension components as well. Again, maybe I'm a bit dense, but I'm just not clear on your overall plan with this. As far as the structural work, have you looked at what Mustangs Plus did for their "Ronster" conversion? A bunch of pieces of sheet metal cut to size...but I'm not enough of an expert on chassis needs to know if that is a good start on it.

A 4 link would certainly not be my approach to rear suspension, and EvM is moving forward fairly quickly with their 3-link. Front mods...for what form of suspension? Griggs-type changes? Any thoughts of seeking input/involvement over on CC.com?

It is really hard to get involved w/ such a sweeping project w/ so little info. Then again, I may be a bit dense!

stangonline · Mar 24, 2006

I've watched the EvM product develop...only thing about that, is they forsee $2400+ for the completed tri-link/watts/coil-over setup. For about $600 more, I would much rather go with a tried and true Griggs watts/TA setup.

I think the main issue people will have initially on this project is their perception will not be your vision...if that makes sense As it is explained further, and people have drawings to look at, it will start to come together.

Honestly, I am not sure what you intend the final car to look like.. Will it look more like a Mustang, a Ferrari, or a hybrid of the two?

Jeff

xj220 · Mar 24, 2006

Even if you can't get all the people you want on this project, I say go with it anyways. I think it would be really cool to see a Murrari.

SN65 · Mar 25, 2006

mtbdoc said:
For reinforcement alone??? Or suspension components as well. Again, maybe I'm a bit dense, but I'm just not clear on your overall plan with this. As far as the structural work, have you looked at what Mustangs Plus did for their "Ronster" conversion? A bunch of pieces of sheet metal cut to size...but I'm not enough of an expert on chassis needs to know if that is a good start on it.

A 4 link would certainly not be my approach to rear suspension, and EvM is moving forward fairly quickly with their 3-link. Front mods...for what form of suspension? Griggs-type changes? Any thoughts of seeking input/involvement over on CC.com?

It is really hard to get involved w/ such a sweeping project w/ so little info. Then again, I may be a bit dense!

Hi Doc,

I think you are right. I am going to have to take the bull by the horns work up all the drawings and detail everthing out. I will start with the chassis modifications. I will get started on the drawings ASAP. I should have all the chassis mods detailed by the end of next week.

As far as the "ronster" modifications go. I believe that we will end up going far beyond the capabilities of that kit. In that kit, you are correct in that you get "A bunch of pieces of sheet metal cut to size...". In that kit, there are two items that will add some strength to the chassis. First is a partial torque box (two pieces of light gauge steel instead of the 3 heavy pieces found in the factory item). The second appears to be a shallow channel that runs the length of the rocker. The rest are trim pieces. They charge $350 for that kit. The Ronster kit will help tie the rocker to the frame rail, but again, not nearly as well as the factory piece (about $45 each), but honestly, it is not going to be nealy stout enough for what we propose to do.

As long as I have gone this far, I do not know if I would feel comfortable lopping the top off a coupe with just the Ronster kit installed. I am sure that it has been done, but they don't add nearly as much structure as that found on a convertable. And they are basically building a convertable. I would think that as a minimum, they would have to add as much structure as found in a convertable. If not, more.

Bob

mtbdoc · Mar 31, 2006

....end of next week arrives....

mustangracer · Mar 31, 2006

Just fyi for those listening, the MP chassis kit also includes plates that install along the inside of the rockers on both sides which I think are 1/4 or 3/16 plate. It of course would be better if they were one piece all the way back.

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