H/C/I vs. Supercharger

2000xp8

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Aug 8, 2003

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#21

• Jul 26, 2005

• #21

Well, gas mileage should not be part of this debate. You can get good gas mileage with a proper tune out of both. I get 20mph highway, and 15-17 city.

They both will make similar power, but in a race between an s trim car, and a h/c/i car i'd rather be in the H/C/I car.

When you do h/c/i you are freshening up the entire top end of your car, gaskets, seals, etc.

When you put a supercharger on, you land up with bigger oil leaks, possibly blown head gaskets, and your stock heads will age years in a matter of months. All it takes is one blown headgasket to really put a damper on your fun.

I've been in and around both types all the time, and the supercharger only method is just a quick fix to get some HP. If you drive hard this is not the way to go.

Do the H/C/I first, and then if you need more power, add a SC to your fresh top end.

 

cevtv

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#22

• Jul 26, 2005

• #22

With the SC you'll need to run high octane (read that as more expensive) gas, too..............

 

brian15

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#23

• Jul 26, 2005

• #23

2000xp8 said:

Well, gas mileage should not be part of this debate. You can get good gas mileage with a proper tune out of both. I get 20mph highway, and 15-17 city.

They both will make similar power, but in a race between an s trim car, and a h/c/i car i'd rather be in the H/C/I car.

When you do h/c/i you are freshening up the entire top end of your car, gaskets, seals, etc.

When you put a supercharger on, you land up with bigger oil leaks, possibly blown head gaskets, and your stock heads will age years in a matter of months. All it takes is one blown headgasket to really put a damper on your fun.

I've been in and around both types all the time, and the supercharger only method is just a quick fix to get some HP. If you drive hard this is not the way to go.

Do the H/C/I first, and then if you need more power, add a SC to your fresh top end.

Click to expand...

ill 2nd this , yes a supercharger sounds good ...... i had saved up enough money and got a powerdyne about 6 months ago was ready to put it on but sold it and bought my heads and intake .

im now running 108mph in the 1/4 with a stock cam , imagine a blower on top of that - it would be sick .... i know what and untuned shot of nitrous does it makes it goes 11.60 at 116 on a stock bottom end with no problems .

as far as driveablilt i have stock injectors and stuff and speed density idle is stock and no bucking or anything its great

 

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Daggar

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#24

• Jul 26, 2005

• #24

I have nothing to add to this thread that's already not been covered except for one small comment.

Kenne Bells are not Roots blowers. They are twin screws.

 

B

Biggeley

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Mar 4, 2003

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#25

• Jul 26, 2005

• #25

As for getting worse gas mileage with HCI over SC, that's B.S... I get the exact same mileage after the head swap on mine. I kept the factory camshaft, so drivability, emissions, and gas mileage are all there.

Car runs low 13s (13.0-13.1) in an AOD with street tires.. Drives like a stocker.. And there's no expensive tuning that needed to be done to make it run right.. The power is all there in 90 degree weather, and I can beat on it constantly and not have to worry about a lot of the tuning/maintenance headaches that can accompany a SC car..

And the best part.. I still can run 87...

 

powertrax91

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Mar 13, 2002

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Jul 26, 2005

#26

• Jul 26, 2005

• #26

this is a funny thread... I want to go fast and save gas...

if you wanna play your gonna have to pay...

 

91ghp5.0

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May 25, 2005

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#27

• Jul 26, 2005

• #27

heads, intake, porting, etc., will add up to be a whole lot more than a $1900 vortech 5-6 psi SC-trim kit though.

 

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Polter83

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#28

• Jul 27, 2005

• #28

Na.. gt40 heads, performer intake thats what.. 800bucks if that much.

 

2000xp8

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#29

• Jul 27, 2005

• #29

91ghp5.0 said:

heads, intake, porting, etc., will add up to be a whole lot more than a $1900 vortech 5-6 psi SC-trim kit though.

Click to expand...

You don't NEED head porting on heads meant for a 302. If you are hardcore you can do it, but it's not necessary on Tw's, edelbrocks, and afr's.

You can also buy most H/c/i parts used and save a bundle, you don't want to buy a supercharger used unless you know exactly where it's been.

Now if an SC trim is just the new name for an A trim, a good H/C/I car will spank a car that only has an A trim. The S makes it close, but you are adding another $500.

By the time both are done using an S trim, the costs are very similar, but the reliability and engine longevity will be with the H/C/I.

I watch my buddy install both all the time, and the supercharger guys are always back earlier for a new engine. The H/C/I guys are back not because they have to be, but they either want a supercharger or a 347.

 

A

Andres2882

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#30

• Jul 27, 2005

• #30

Yeah, I was going to mention that you should definately know ahead of time if your stock bottom end, seals, gaskets etc. are in good enough condition to not blow something with the S/C - especially if that's your DD. I was thinking the same as you, ie slapping the S/C on. But with 160k miles on my beast, I figured that refreshing the bottom end was the least thing I needed to do first. If I had a 30k mile car, I'd go straight for a S/C IMO.

 

mustangdaren

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Jul 27, 2005

#31

• Jul 27, 2005

• #31

I would go with a Vortech sc-trim over the H/C/I. They can be found for as low as $1640 if you shop around. I would suggest a Walbro GSS340 fuel pump while you are at it just to be safe. You can up the boost as easy as changing the crank pulley for the blower. A 7 inch crank pulley with a stock motor will get you around 12psi, maybe a little more. Injectors and MAF can be found cheap on ebay or on Stangnet classifieds. I got my 42lb injectors for only $200, new in the classifieds. Having had both the H/C/I and the supercharger I have to say the supercharger is the best bang for the buck.

 

QDRHRSE

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#32

• Jul 27, 2005

• #32

Scorcher2005 said:

are you kidding? some people get 400 fwhp from h/c/i. thats 175 hp more from factory rating. i dont see how 75hp is hard to get an e-cam, gt40 intake and heads should easily get you the 75 hp (and supporting mods)

Click to expand...

You're getting away from the fact that we are talking about economy and bolting stuff onto a stock bottom end. Yeah, sure, you can easily make 400 hp with race parts and compression. Without spending an additional 2g's or so in other additional parts you cannot get 75hp with an intake, heads, and cam. How about all the other stuff you need to make that happen.

Stay focused on the real objective!!!!!!!!

 

onebad7up

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#33

• Jul 27, 2005

• #33

So H/C/I wont give you 75hp? How much would a mild setup give?

 

2000xp8

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#34

• Jul 27, 2005

• #34

A very good H/C/I intake setup can get you around 325rwhp total.
Costs 2750-3300 using new parts, that's total with gaskets.

Daren, you are comparing a gt40 b cam combo to a supercharger, that's a very mild combination, and does not make a good comparison.
That Hci setup probably only nets around 270rwhp as compared to 325 with some afrs or wedges. That's a 50rwhp difference.

 

J

jeffs89gt

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#35

• Jul 27, 2005

• #35

Scorcher2005 said:

are you kidding? some people get 400 fwhp from h/c/i. thats 175 hp more from factory rating. i dont see how 75hp is hard to get an e-cam, gt40 intake and heads should easily get you the 75 hp (and supporting mods)

Click to expand...

trick flow heats, twisted wedge heads, x303 cam 24lb injectors, throttle body, mass air and fule pump. vs a powerdyne blower with 6 ps.... h/c/i rules over that.... but thats just my 2 cents

 

mustangdaren

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Jul 28, 2005

#36

• Jul 28, 2005

• #36

My blower got me a little over 100hp gain pullied for 5psi. A simple crank pulley swap and we are talking even more power. On a bone stock engine he will keep his driveability and make awesome torque which is what he will feel being a daily driver.

 

2

2002BLGT

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#37

• Jul 28, 2005

• #37

I have a B cam ($189), GT40Y303 heads ($719), Typhoon intake ($280) bucks , stock shorty headers , gutted factory Hpipe , flowmaster cat back , car made 245 rwhp , 274rwtq , total investment with gaskets and all , little over $1200 bucks , dont think you can buy a blower for that and at around $1600 bucks I dont see a novi 1000 or powerdyne 6psi kit beating those numbers by much on a bone stock car .........and keep in mind the trickflow stage one cam is better than the B cam , and its 50 bucks cheaper

 

QDRHRSE

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#38

• Jul 28, 2005

• #38

Even though we sound like we totally disagree, Joe( 2000xp8) and I are really saying the same thing. $ for $ you can't beat the value of a cheap blower. I said something to the effect that there is a lot of additional stuff you need to get to make the H/C/I combo work and there is considerable cost related to that stuff. Joe said that it could cost well over 3k.....that's the same thing. Maybe we should narrow down the scope of the thread and focus on the original question:

"I have been looking into superchargers, but my car is a daily driver so I want to keep the gas mileage. Would I be better off doing H/C/I? Which one will give the worst gas mileage? Compare lowest supercharger to a mild H/C/I setup. Thanks"

Notice the use of the term(s) "mild H/C/I setup". When I hear the term "mild" it does not usually bring to mind a 400hp 302. Also, since economy seems to be important, a stock car with a small blower will exceed H/C/I in gas mileage almost all the time and would probably not put any more stress on the motor. With a NA combo you have to spin the motor faster and a blower will create more cylinder pressure.....I'm just saying.....it all depends on your perspective I guess.

 

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Polter83

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#39

• Jul 28, 2005

• #39

Well I dont think anyone has a 400hp H/C/I in mind, to do that.. is kinda a straight glory factor that costs too much to be practical. Like I said earlier, a HCI is cheap. Grab an explorer motor, 400bucks. Take the heads, tb, intake, to a shop get it all cleaned. Thats what 150? If that much. Sofar 550, gaskets, lets say 75bucks, which covers valve covers, lower intake/heads, tb gaskets, and up/low intake. Ok sofar 625. Thats WAY less then any blower, no matter how cheap the kit is. The 5.0 is suppose to be 220hp..but thats only if yours is in tip top shape and is an oddball. Most get around 200hp. So with the gt40p explorer motor the average gain is 55-80hp...with supporting boltons is expected.. roughly 260-280hp. For $700, lets add the oil/filter/antifreeze..70hp is cheap. Now this is a Mild combo, considering theres no cam swap. So theres no reason to spin the motor any more than a regular stock setup. Perhaps to get into a slightly higher rpm sweet spot, which cant be more than 600rpms than the stock setup. Gas mileage shouldnt change with the right tune. Perhaps a mile or two either way. This set up would be perfect for a small blower down the road. 8psi, he should be pushing at least 375hp to the ground, and have tons for torque. Now in order to get that extra 100hp, hes going to have to spend nearly 1500 for the parts.. so by ratio..an HCI can get you more hp for the money...

 

QDRHRSE

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#40

• Jul 28, 2005

• #40

Polter 83:
No possible way you can get 80hp (not even 60) out of Explorer parts. How about the special headers that you will need for the GT40P heads? Then you have deal with used parts? Come on dude- get real. Also, where are you going to find a complete explorer motor with heads, intake, and throttle body for $400? And if you do you, how are you going to find one with low miles...if you did, how would you know? What about the lack of compatability....if I'm not mistaken there is an egr issue and missing sensor holes with the explorer intake. It'll work but it won't just bolt on(technically it will but hopefully you get what I mean by this). That is totally not a feasable option. It's not like you can go to Walmart and find an Explorer set up in any condition....and then get it for $400.

2002BLGT:
You're idea is feasable but your ignoring some costs, that combo could not be made emissions legal, and will not make the same HP numbers. In fact to see a substantial gain out of that you would need a tbody, mass air meter, and maybe even some rockers. You will end up spending a lot more money that is sunk into the vehicle. You can usually recover 60-70% of the cost of a blower if go to sell the car....you can take it off. Once again....I'm just saying....