Hardcore performance parts in the works???

Speedycop · Jan 18, 2004

I'll be voiding the warranty on my new '05 GT in short order, more than likely. I'll want to add a supercharger, and I'll probably have to fab up a Vortech blower mount. Is the new 3V front cover drastically different? Does anyone know if Vortech/Procharger/Paxton/Kenne Bell or any others are already working on their kits, or plan to have one by the time these cars hit the streets? Is there a 5.4 3v truck kit out that could be adapted easily? I can handle plumbing/routing issues, it's the blower bracket/belt alignment that's given me fits in the past!

Did Ford keep the returnless-style fuel system? Should the presently available aftermarket stuff work, if they did? How different are the intakes, where they bolt to the heads? Could adapter plates be made to mount a KB twin screw 2V or 4V blower? Will Ford offer a 3.55 or 3.73 gear as an option?

We're all gonna want to know the answers to these types of questions, and some of us are going to want to start collecting the necessary Hi-Po parts in advance. If any of you work for or have contacts in performance aftermarket companies, please start seeking out the answers to these types of questions. It would greatly benefit all of us, and help to get the new cars realizing their full potential in short order.

Remember, the early bird (performance part developer) gets the worm ('05 GT owner $$$)!!!

Mach460 · Jan 18, 2004

Supposedly Ford has already sent prototypes to Saleen, Roush, and other Hi-Po aftermarket manufacturers. So I think we'll see the Aftermarket a lot more livelier this time around than we did for the 4.6 when it initially came out.

Z28x · Jan 18, 2004

If you are going to add a S/C why not wait for the SVT Cobra? That way everything will be factory engineered.

JoeySperz · Jan 18, 2004

The intake is mounted to the front of the Engine, so a centrifical supercharger will be difficult. You may be forced to get a roots blower because of that.

Rootus · Jan 18, 2004

HardcoreSTANG13 said:
The intake is mounted to the front of the Engine, so a centrifical supercharger will be difficult. You may be forced to get a roots blower because of that.

That's a good thing, though . Who would want a centrifugal blower over a twin screw, anyway?

Dave

Mach460 · Jan 18, 2004

HairyCanary said:
That's a good thing, though . Who would want a centrifugal blower over a twin screw, anyway?

Dave

Man...could you imagine.....

The way the intake is set-up...it's crying for a Ram-Air kit, couple that to a Root's Blower, and top it off with 2005 GT Concept hood....sweeet.

siege · Jan 18, 2004

3.55's come standard in the GT when you have a 5-spd, just so ya know. And I'm hopin the aftermarket has a lot of stuff...I'm used to shopping for the 5.0

awalbert88 · Jan 18, 2004

I'd wait on a blower until somebody has a kit for one. Fabbing up the stuff yourself is probably a mistake, because you're going to need a custom chip, and nobody has any experience doing custom chips for the 3V w/ VVT yet.

However, basic stuff like ram air (should be easy as heck with that intake) and exhaust should net you some reasonable gains, and maybe we'll be seeing some high 12's with just those basic mods. On paper, the car should be capable of low 13's from the factory, but we'll see. With a blower and a really good tune (this is even more important than on the 2v because of VVT), this car is going to be dynamite.

SportscarFan · Jan 18, 2004

Mach460 said:
The way the intake is set-up...it's crying for a Ram-Air kit, couple that to a Root's Blower, and top it off with 2005 GT Concept hood....sweeet.

Did you look at the photos under the 05 GT concept's hood?

Ram Air through the front vents - Check
Eaton roots blower - Check

Granted that was a cobra 4 valve engine (probably quite similar to the current cobra's supercharged mill.) So the engine software may not be compatible with Variable Cam Timing, or drive by wire, but it won't be long until someone comes up with it.

Who knows? maybe the upcoming 4 valve cobra or mach1/Boss 302 models will get variable cam timing on intake and exhaust cams, with 5 liters, or 5.4 liters, making a great engine even better. Even if most of us won't be able to afford it. The technology will spread downward eventually.

Wonder if the Ford GT's supercharged 5.4 has VCT? 500 HP is a good number. Maybe the new SVT offering will approach that, especially after the big GT has ended it's run.

SVTdriver · Jan 18, 2004

I'm not sure that ram air would provide any benefit if you have a supercharger.

awalbert88 · Jan 18, 2004

SportscarFan said:
Did you look at the photos under the 05 GT concept's hood?

Ram Air through the front vents - Check
Eaton roots blower - Check

Granted that was a cobra 4 valve engine (probably quite similar to the current cobra's supercharged mill.) So the engine software may not be compatible with Variable Cam Timing, or drive by wire, but it won't be long until someone comes up with it.

Who knows? maybe the upcoming 4 valve cobra or mach1/Boss 302 models will get variable cam timing on intake and exhaust cams, with 5 liters, or 5.4 liters, making a great engine even better. Even if most of us won't be able to afford it. The technology will spread downward eventually.

Wonder if the Ford GT's supercharged 5.4 has VCT? 500 HP is a good number. Maybe the new SVT offering will approach that, especially after the big GT has ended it's run.

The Concept car should not be used for reference here. The engine was the same as the 03/04 Cobra. There has been no confirmation that a 4V V8 is going to be used in the Mustang, though it's possible. I suspect that the 5.4 3V will be used for the special models, and probably a supercharged version of that for the SVT.

The Ford GT motor, to my knowledge, does not have VVT. I'm not sure that a DOHC motor benefits from VVT nearly so much as a SOHC motor does, though I don't doubt that there are gains to be had there (it's just one more complexity for an already very complex engine design). I would be surprised to see any Mustang getting the same motor as the Ford GT, save perhaps a very limited-run 'R' model. The 3V 5.4 S/C V8 from the Lightning will probably find its way into the SVT Mustang, rated at close to 500hp. Note, however, that the Ford GT motor is by all accounts severely under-rated, perhaps really producing closer to 600hp at the crank

Anyway, the Eagles game is back on, so I'm off to watch them beat the hell out of the cats for that late hit (stupid officials!)

351CJ · Jan 18, 2004

awalbert88 said:
The Ford GT motor, to my knowledge, does not have VVT. I'm not sure that a DOHC motor benefits from VVT nearly so much as a SOHC motor does, though I don't doubt that there are gains to be had there

I believe you are correct, the Ford GT engine does not have VVT.

But, a DOHC motor can benefit more from VVT than a SOHC engine. With a SOHC engine, the exhaust and intake valves have to vary timing together since they are both actuated from the same cam. With a DOHC engine you can vary only the intake timing or you can vary both the intake and exhaust timing and change the timing on intake and exhaust independently, thus also varying valve overlap. This is what BMW's Dual Vanos system does and parth of the reason why BMW is able to get >100 hp / Liter and >80 lb. ft / liter from a normally aspirated engine.

GM Dude · Jan 18, 2004

Ford needs to redesign the 351 and stick it into the mustang, or bring back the Five Oh. They also need to take a look at GM LS1 and New LS2 to help out with their designs.

SVTdriver · Jan 18, 2004

Ford needs to help GM with designs? Iguess in the spirit of bringing competition back that would be ok. I mean they really need more help in the style department though.

RodStang · Jan 18, 2004

SVTdriver said:
I'm not sure that ram air would provide any benefit if you have a supercharger.

True but it sure would look cool.

SVTdriver · Jan 18, 2004

Although ram air style scoops might bring in colder air. Just not ram air.

GM Dude · Jan 18, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Ford needs to help GM with designs? Iguess in the spirit of bringing competition back that would be ok. I mean they really need more help in the style department though.

Let me reiterate my statement, Ford needs to look at GM's engines, so that Ford can figure out how to build a better engine for themselves. Not knocking ford's designs completely, but the LS1's are awesome engines compared to the 4.6. Or Ford could look at the Northstar 4.6's, northstars have been around for 11 years, and have been known as one of the best built engines ever.

SVTdriver · Jan 18, 2004

You left it up to interpretation so I had to say it.
But anyway. I'm not necessarily sure that the ls1 is a superior engine. Sure it has more hp than the 2 valve. But it was rated the same as the 4 valve. Now sure ratings are always subject to debate. But given the fact that it took GM 69 more cubic inches. I think the power issue is moot. You only have to look at the 351 v10 to see ford can make a modular motor better than the ls1. So far I've only known one person with an ls1 who beat a cobra. The sad thing is he sacrificed the engine to do so (overrevved the engine). I would love to have more displacement in the 4.6 but I'm happy with it the way it is.

Rootus · Jan 18, 2004

GM Dude said:
Let me reiterate my statement, Ford needs to look at GM's engines, so that Ford can figure out how to build a better engine for themselves. Not knocking ford's designs completely, but the LS1's are awesome engines compared to the 4.6. Or Ford could look at the Northstar 4.6's, northstars have been around for 11 years, and have been known as one of the best built engines ever.

You crack me up. Ever compared an LS1 to a Ford Windsor motor (for example, the 302)? The Ford came first, thanks. And if you've looked up close and personal at the Northstar, it looks surprisingly similar to the 4.6L DOHC from Ford. Enough so that it'd be easy to get them mixed up. And the 4.6L has been around for more than 10 years as well.

Dave

GM Dude · Jan 18, 2004

HairyCanary said:
You crack me up. Ever compared an LS1 to a Ford Windsor motor (for example, the 302)? The Ford came first, thanks. And if you've looked up close and personal at the Northstar, it looks surprisingly similar to the 4.6L DOHC from Ford. Enough so that it'd be easy to get them mixed up. And the 4.6L has been around for more than 10 years as well.

Dave

I'm not even gonna turn this into a debate, so I'll post this instead, you got me

Hardcore performance parts in the works???

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