Has anyone had problems with their PIP in the Distrubitor?

What are your problems?
My PIP was bad and the car wouldn't start.

Yep - it does happen. The PIP provides the computer with knowing cylinder displacement (where a given cylinder is). Without a PIP, no spark and no fuel injector pulsing occur. The FP will not run outside of the Prime-out.

The dizzy bushing can get sloppy, and take the PIP with it. Erratic stalling or no-start conditions are common when a PIP is on the outs.

Good luck.

The most glaring code to me is 18. Look for things like an open in the SPOUT wiring. It can also be a bad TFI (the actual signal doesn't match what it's supposed to be. This can kick an IDM code, which 18 encompasses IIRC).

I believe Jrichker might have a post dealing with code 18 - he will be along in the A.M. during coffee.

As an aside, if you think you have a PIP issue: Pull the cap and look in the bowl. Look for shavings (or swish a magnet around down there - it should pick up ferrous metal). If you have shavings, there's an issue. I like to wash down the bowl with electrical contact cleaner occasionally. If doing this helps, that's a clue.

For your battery, look for parasitic draws like vanity lights, interior lights triggered by pin switches, etc. Your battery might not be able to hold a charge (it will show decent voltage but goes dead after a few days).

Good luck.

fix FIRST - KOER-18 - SPOUT open

44 & 94 - do you still have your AIR(smog pump) hooked up??

34 - EGR valve position sensor voltage above high limit

Cyl Bal test - cyls 2, 5, 6, and 7 are weak

KOER 18 - disconnect computer
key ON
measure voltage between Pin37(PK) and Pin40(BK/W)
measure voltage between Pin57(R) and Pin60(BK/W)

is voltage greater than 10.5v

If so,
key OFF
ECM disconnected
disconnect TFI
measure Resistance between ECM Pin37 and TFI harness Pk wire (SPOUT)

HEY i made a mistake on the pin numbers/ colors:

all is correct EXCEPT :

Pin37 is (R) wire
and measure Resistance between ECM Pin37 and TFI harness Pk wire (SPOUT)
SHOULD BE: measure Resistance between ECM Pin36(PK) and TFI harness Pk wire (SPOUT)

this is how it SHOULD read:

KOER 18 - disconnect computer
key ON
measure voltage between Pin37(R) and Pin40(BK/W)
measure voltage between Pin57(R) and Pin60(BK/W)

is voltage greater than 10.5v

If so,
key OFF
ECM disconnected
disconnect TFI
measure Resistance between ECM Pin36(PK) and TFI harness Pk wire (SPOUT)

sorry for any inconvenience

Code 18 - SPOUT out or wiring fault - look for short to ground in SPOUT wiring going back to the computer. Possible bad TFI.

The SPOUT enables the distributor to advance the timing beyond the base setting. Without a working SPOUt, you are locked down to the timing you set with the timing light.

Code 34 Or 334 - EGR voltage above closed limit - Failed sensor, carbon between EGR pintle valve and seat holding the valve off its seat. Remove the EGR valve and clean it with carbon remover. Prior to re-installing see if you can blow air through the flange side of the EGR by mouth. If it leaks, there is carbon stuck on the pintle valve seat, replace the EGR valve ($85-$95).

If the blow by test passes, and you have replaced the sensor, then you have electrical ground problems. Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1.5 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery post. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.

Let’s put on our Inspector Gadget propeller head beanies and think about how this works:
The EGR sensor is a variable resistor with ground on one leg and Vref (5 volts) on the other. Its’ resistance ranges from 4000 to 5500 Ohms measured between Vref & ground, depending on the sensor. The center connection of the variable resistor is the slider that moves in response to the amount of vacuum applied. The slider has some minimum value of resistance greater than 100 ohms so that the computer always sees a voltage present at its’ input. If the value was 0 ohms, there would be no voltage output. Then the computer would not be able to distinguish between a properly functioning sensor and one that had a broken wire or bad connection. The EGR I have in hand reads 700 Ohms between the slider (EPV) and ground (SIG RTN) at rest with no vacuum applied. The EGR valve or sensor may cause the voltage to be above closed limits due to the manufacturing tolerances that cause the EGR sensor to rest at a higher position than it should.



This will affect idle quality by diluting the intake air charge


Codes 44 & 94 - AIR system inoperative - Air Injection. Check vacuum lines for leaks, & cracks. Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve. The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.
The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheelwell turn the vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire. Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel & the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin 32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Starting the engine with the computer jumpered to self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38 and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin 38 & Solenoid valve #1.

If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation. Power & ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.
See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

See http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50636&d=1180923382 for a very nice drawing of the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) plumbing

If you have a catalytic converter H pipe, you need to fix these codes. If you don't, then don't worry about them

kravamagaguy said:

Could this be a pip or bad distrubitor problem? You can see from the list of everything I have replaced thus far.

Thanks,

Click to expand...

it is possible BUT we want to verify/eleminate possible problems thru testing. that is normally the quickest, cheapest and least stressful way


PS -- there is no such thing as a stupid question.

kravamagaguy said:

Stupid Question- in regards to this,

The SPOUT enables the distributor to advance the timing beyond the base setting. Without a working SPOUt, you are locked down to the timing you set with the timing light.

Click to expand...

A comment was made to make things easy to visualize, and it was taken too literally. Don't look at the distributor itself for making advance or retardation changes. The TFI is what sends the signal to energize the ignition coil at the correct time.

I had a similar problem once on my coupe and it ended up being the pick up in my distributor. I replaced the distributor and my problem was gone.

ignition control module?? i dont know as much as these guys but one time i had this problem with my car where i would be driving and after awhile the car its self would like die out and i step on it and it wouldnt go anywhere its hard to explain the car was on but it was moving and the engine would slowly die out, then after a while the whole car wouldnt turn on because it was heating up and needed time to cool like i said i dont know as much and i may be off topic but im just giving you my two cents

I would just get a reman distributor from a local parts store , I had really bad bucking after a cam swap before and chased it around replaced everything and finally decided to bite the bullet and pay for the reman dist. and it fixed .....the old was was really hard to turn so I guess the bushing was getting sloppy and probably causing the shaft to wobble and not keeping a constant reading on the PIP ....