Header Headaches

78Mach1 · Mar 27, 2004

I was given a set of the Dynomax headers by a guy with a Gold coupe that got squished- he was cleaning out his garage

There has got to be an easier way to get the darn things in there other thatn pulling the motor out- or is there? Right now I pulled the old manifolds off, have the M. Mounts out of the way(yes at this point I might as well pull it, but the cherry picker doesn'[t move too well in soft muddy ground) and the motor raised and supported with my floor jack, and can't get enough wiggle room to get them in. Any Ideas, or am I stuck pulling it all apart again just to get them in?

77sleeper · Mar 27, 2004

I took my heads off

Blue Thunder · Mar 27, 2004

Remove both motor mount bolts, and try jacking up one side of the motor at a time.
You may also need to loosen/remove the trans mount and put another jack under the transmission, so you can tilt the motor forward or back. (Careful of your fan/shroud/radiator clearance).

Blue Thunder · Mar 27, 2004

I think they actually named headers for the headaches they instill, because I've yet to work with car headers that are EASY to install. (at least on V engines)

78Mach1 · Mar 27, 2004

Blue Thunder said:
Remove both motor mount bolts, and try jacking up one side of the motor at a time.
You may also need to loosen/remove the trans mount and put another jack under the transmission, so you can tilt the motor forward or back. (Careful of your fan/shroud/radiator clearance).

I think they actually named headers for the headaches they instill, because I've yet to work with car headers that are EASY to install. (at least on V engines)

DOH didn't think of the trans mount for more wiggle room. Already have the motor mounts off, along with the fan and shroud- can get a radiator(or get it fixed), but those V-8 Shrouds are like gold when you can find one.

My brothers firebird is cake(would be-they were already there when he bought it) you could fit a Sherman Tank down past the sides of the motor in that car- To do any engine work- pop the hood crawl inside and sit on a fender well lol

78Mach1 · Mar 27, 2004

77sleeper said:
I took my heads off

I'll prob. pull the whole thing and put them in with the motor before I do that- don't even have 10 miles on the new motor yet- really don't want to start tearing it down if I don't have to.

Dano78 · Mar 28, 2004

Blue Thunder said:
Remove both motor mount bolts, and try jacking up one side of the motor at a time.
You may also need to loosen/remove the trans mount and put another jack under the transmission, so you can tilt the motor forward or back. (Careful of your fan/shroud/radiator clearance).

Yep, that's how i did mine. I didn't loosen the rear trans mount. Just hooked the cherry picker to the furthest outter point on the front of the head and lifted one side and then did the other. Piece of cake. THough, i do admit... it is wayyyyy easier to stuff the headers as an engine/tranny/starter/header combo all at once.

Blue Thunder · Mar 28, 2004

I used a floor jack, and jacked up on a short length of 2x4 which I'd slid up between the motor and motor mount.

78Mach1 · Mar 28, 2004

Thanks guys- well The drivers side is in, going to end up yanking the motor back out to get the pass side. she just won't get down between the innerwall, and the bellhousing now matter how high or cockeyed i twisted it around. Could it be a difference in auto vs. Standard Bells? I'm trying to stuff it around the RAD bell.

For now I put the manifold back on that side until I can clean out the other side of the garage enough to get some room to swing the cherry picker around. I have a little time left anyway- my pipes aren't in yet, I solved the daul exhaust location problem too, I'm joining Unbridaled Fury's(haven't seen him around in a while though) II with Side Pipes

78Mach1 · Mar 28, 2004

One other really stupid thought now. I know the Fox shorties wont work because they exit right out on top of the steering shaft, but what about on the passsenger side?

dmoody · Mar 29, 2004

I just installed my Hooker headers this weekend. I had to remove the crossmember ...is there anything you can install without removing that thing? Anyway other than that, I was totally floored at how easy it went. My only issue now is torquing the bolts properly... I can't get a socket on many of them so I'm stuck tightening the bolts with an open end wrench.

As for the headers, they are nice quality but I must say the paint department could use a few lessons. For one the paint is not high temp so it will burn right off... secondly the headers had surface rust on them in several places. For a brand new $300 part, I expect them to splurge a couple of bucks for some high temp paint.

d

jeffnoel · Mar 29, 2004

How about using a crowsfoot on the torque wrench? dmoody, I'm waiting until after this years required smog test to install the Hookers I got on eBay, since they came with no instructions could you provide me the how too info? Before I do the install I'm planning on having them Ceramic coated for $200.

Joeverb · Mar 29, 2004

Dano78 said:
THough, i do admit... it is wayyyyy easier to stuff the headers as an engine/tranny/starter/header combo all at once.

I second that.

78Mach1 · Mar 29, 2004

Joeverb said:
I second that.

And after this weekend- I'll definitely add a #rd to that list

dmoody · Mar 29, 2004

jeffnoel, how-to info is no problem. First my car is a manual w/ the original bell and block. Here is what I learned. Ceramic coating is a good idea. Studs are a bad idea. Your passenger side header should come in three separate pieces. Unbolt the old passenger side exhaust manifold and slide the new Hooker header up through the bottom of the car. Then through the top, slide in the two separate pipes (#1 and #2 cylinders). For the driver's side you'll need to remove the crossmember and the old exhaust manifold and simply slide the entire header up through the bottom of the car.
I recommend doing this somewhere that you can stand underneath the car. Jacking the car up and installing the headers, although doable, would be more difficult. I'm not sure about a crow's foot on a torque wrench... I've never seen one, however you can bet I'll be looking before I start the new engine up. I'd like to be able to torque all of the bolts to ensure against blowing the header gasket.

d

jeffnoel · Mar 29, 2004

I know you can torgue with a crowsfoot but I believe it has to be at 90 degrees to the wrench for an accurate torque reading. I picked up a set of Crows foot adapters at the local Harbor Freight tool place for less than $10 basically an open ended wrench that connects to a socket wrench.

78pinto · Mar 29, 2004

jeffnoel said:
How about using a crowsfoot on the torque wrench? dmoody, I'm waiting until after this years required smog test to install the Hookers I got on eBay, since they came with no instructions could you provide me the how too info? Before I do the install I'm planning on having them Ceramic coated for $200.

you might be better to install them first, make sure of the fit. Clearancing them with a hammer AFTER ceramic coating really sucks! Just my 2 cents.

dmoody · Mar 29, 2004

If you do decide to get them ceramic coated, weld the three inch collectors on first. Also the passenger side header that comes in three pieces... you'll need to be sure the #1 and #2 pipes on the ends don't get coated... otherwise they won't slide into the bottom part of the header.

d

Dano78 · Mar 29, 2004

jeffnoel said:
I know you can torgue with a crowsfoot but I believe it has to be at 90 degrees to the wrench for an accurate torque reading.

You are absolutely right. And with all honesty, I don't thnk there IS a header out there on a car properly torqued just because of the inaccessability. I get a set of reduced head header bolts and just used the 'calibrated wrist' method using just the wrench. I'll install them with a 1/4 drive ratchet but tighten them with the wrench. Hadn't had one leak yet. And besides, because of the thinner flanges and higher temps, the header will loose the torque you torque it to over a matter of time. Can't treat them like a cast iron manifold.

dmoody said:
As for the headers, they are nice quality but I must say the paint department could use a few lessons. For one the paint is not high temp so it will burn right off... secondly the headers had surface rust on them in several places. For a brand new $300 part, I expect them to splurge a couple of bucks for some high temp paint.

There really is no such animal. I've tried just about everything out there possible to put on a header short of having them sent out for the 'real deal' coatings. That 1500* is a total joke. The second you run down the freeway (constant hot temp) or run it a bit too lean, pfffttttt..... there goes your paint/coating. Chrome plating, aluminumizing, or Cereamic coating are the only ones that seem to work for sure.

Blue Thunder · Mar 30, 2004

Dano78 said:
There really is no such animal. I've tried just about everything out there possible to put on a header short of having them sent out for the 'real deal' coatings. That 1500* is a total joke. The second you run down the freeway (constant hot temp) or run it a bit too lean, pfffttttt..... there goes your paint/coating. Chrome plating, aluminumizing, or Cereamic coating are the only ones that seem to work for sure.

I bet you havent tried my old faithful paint.. BBQ black!

BBQ Black paint from NAPA or wherever actually stays on the header for quite awhile. I love this paint. Everyone laughs when I tell them about this stuff, which is half the fun.

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