headers or tuner?

98COBRA281 · Apr 7, 2008

well i cant decide which one i want,i have like 350$ to spend max. i was thinking of bbk shorties, or a hand held tuner like diablo sport, which one would be the best bang for the buck?

fobra559 · Apr 7, 2008

I would go with a tuner hands down

CobraRed_96_GT · Apr 7, 2008

shorties aren't even close

blkhorse · Apr 7, 2008

+1 on tuner shorties on a n/a car don't yeild that much power. the tuner you can use throughout the mod process

CobraRed_96_GT · Apr 7, 2008

blkhorse said:
+1 on tuner shorties on a n/a car don't yeild that much power. the tuner you can use throughout the mod process

more like shorties on the 4.6, other engines especially pushrods it aint so shabby

98COBRA281 · Apr 7, 2008

is diablo sport a good tuner?

SonicStangGT · Apr 7, 2008

I would go with the tuner. I put a set of shorties on and gained a better sound, thats it. There not worth the money or time to install. Wait till you can buy long tubes on headers.

TrueBlue03 · Apr 7, 2008

misread the post.

The better bang for buck is the tuner, considering its only around 350-400 with a tune.
For the install work and price of shorties, its not worth it if. Plus like other mentioned, you can use that tuner down the road which will end up being a great investment.

Now as for arguing for which mod will provide the 4.6L 2valve with more power...and not which was more expensive and a pain in the ass to deal with (install).... i've done the direct comparison with my buddies car, and the shorties made more power than the tune, hands down.

The tuner didnt really do too much. When i did not have the shorties on, my buddy's car had the exact same mods as me + the SCT tuner with Tim's tune and 3.73's.....He only pulled on me about half a car in multiple races (on a closed course) from 5mph to 70 - 80mph.

EPIK · Apr 7, 2008

Get an Xcal2.....I made the mistake of putting shorties on my old 96 GT...Stupidest mod I ever bought & they leaked. The results might be better on a PI motor, but I dont think they will help much on a non PI.

On another note, I gained about 25rwhp 16rwtq from my longtubes & removing the cats, so headers arent always a bad idea on some 4.6 motors...

CobraRed_96_GT · Apr 7, 2008

TrueBlue03 said:
Sorry cobra_red but im going to have to disagree. I've tested this mod comparison. Been at this predicament before.

I chose the shorties and my buddy bought the sct tuner with Tim's tune.
Both of us have 03 GT's. We have had exact same mods: SLP x pipe, Magnaflow catback, Accufab TB and Plenum and our own RAIs....(except he has 3.73s)

- The tuner shifted the powerband lower... and made the engine feel overall more torquey.
- The shorties gave my car some high end power...but its still suffering in the low end without a tune.

He got the tuner and flashed his car before i installed my shorties. When we raced (on a closed course) and he only had the tune and gears over me, and it did not make the car pull that much harder over mine...He pulled maybe 1/2 a car to 3/4 of a car in a race from 5mph roll to 70 or 80mph.

Once i got the shorties on, there was a noticable difference in how much harder the headers made the car pull in comparison to the tune. Hands down, the shorties gave the car more power than the tune.

Of course, i am only arguing for which mod provided the 4.6L 2valve with more power.
I will say that the better bang for buck is the tuner, considering its only around 350-400 with a tune.
For the install work and price of shorties, its not worth it if. Plus like other mentioned, you can use that tuner down the road which will end up being a great investment.

there are a lot of factors in racing two cars, not so many in comparing dyno results (assuming same dyno and almost same climate). And i've yet to see one drastic increase due to shorties

blkhorse · Apr 7, 2008

the tuner at that mod level is not going to do much,but a tuner can grow with your mods. it will allow you to get the most out of your mods. A tuner like mine offers two years of tuning for a price thats hard to beat,so you can see it is affordable to upgrade your tunes. as far as the shorties they have their place,I have done a lot of research from people who have them. on a n/a car l/t's seem to bring out the most power. If you do a reseach you will find that shorties yeild more power than l/t's on a KB equiped car,at least that's what I found

TrueBlue03 · Apr 7, 2008

I made the post not reading the ""bang for buck"" part. i was mistaken and thought we were comparing which made more power. I have edited my previous post.

CobraRed_96_GT said:
there are a lot of factors in racing two cars, not so many in comparing dyno results

I agree.

but....considering we've been racing our cars side by side for 2 years now (living only 3 miles from me), i have reasonable grounds to argue the point. (he posts on here as well)

Our cars responded just about identical to the same mods we installed....and this was thouroughly proven in our many, many test runs over the years. The tuner with Tim's tune did NOT do that much compared to the headers. Maybe it gave the car more actual HP if it were on a dyno ...but i will put down any amount of money that the shorties will make the car win the race in place of a tuner with a mail order tune...because i've already tested it for myself.

98COBRA281 · Apr 7, 2008

TrueBlue03 said:
The better bang for buck is the tuner, considering its only around 350-400 with a tune.

what do you mean with a tune?

TrueBlue03 · Apr 7, 2008

You give the tuner a list of your mods and they create a "mail order" tune for you to flash your car via the SCT or Diablo.

98COBRA281 · Apr 7, 2008

yea i didnt know that, i whis there were a dyno around me just to see what the little npi would put down, i would proboly if i found out

Winters98GT · Apr 7, 2008

I say neither, headers might be out of your price range, and you're not going to pick up any significant power from a tuner besides the increase in timing, which a timing adjuster can do for 130 bucks new. Get a timing adjuster and call it a day.

98COBRA281 · Apr 7, 2008

with the t/a what should i set the timing at?

Winters98GT · Apr 7, 2008

play with it, generally npi cars like a bit more timing. I ran around 15* degrees for about a year with an npi setup, and between 13-14* with the PI heads. I ran the car at 15* degrees a few times with the PI heads but didnt gain anything at the track.

Besides headers, it looks like you are about maxed on NA stuff unless you go with the PI heads. I think the TA is fine for you, because if you go with a blower down the road, you will proboly want to have it dyno tuned anyways.

blkhorse · Apr 7, 2008

depending on the tuner,dyno or e-mail they still require a handheld. I would go with a sct xcal2 or 3, it will help every mod you make in future,now is the time to buy one since like stated $350 is not going to get much more power. don't waste it on a t/a imho

98COBRA281 · Apr 7, 2008

do you use a timing light? i dont have marks on my crank pully cause i got ud pullies, ive never messed with the timing on a mod motor, just the other day i was usung my friends obd2 scanner it said my timing was 29* advance@ 3krpms but that was in netrual and sombody said it diiferent when driving

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