HEADERS

dennis112 · Jul 9, 2006

Yep, shorties will not drag the ground.

As far as long tubes go, do your homework because nothing, I repeat nothing is much worse than having headers that hit the ground when going over speed bumps, potholes, and RR tracks. It just makes you sick hearing that sound.

Try to find a header that does not use the 3 bolt collector ring. That ring alone can take away nearly 1/2" of your available clearance.

I have custom Accufabs on the GT. Definitely pricier than your budget allows, but the clearance is phenominal and it is one less thing that I have to worry about.

302 coupe · Jul 9, 2006

ddonaca351 said:
Notice how every time you come off a speed bump its going to smash the bottom tubes flat... (ala camaro)

My headers have no scrapes or dents. Like I said, unless you drive like an idiot, speedbumps are not a problem. I'll never run shortys or tri-y's again, they just don't make power like long tubes. For me it was either Hookers or something like Accufab, I got a deal on the hookers and have no regrets.

67topless · Jul 9, 2006

I say go with the long tube headers... I've yet to bottom them out and haven't a single scratch on them (caused by asphalt anyway...).

I have the 600 springs up front with half a spring cut out to drop it this low (with a 289 not giving it a hole lot of weight)

Like it has been said a couple of times above... just drive with some caution when going over speed bumps and such and you should be fine. The largest problem with the Hooker set I have is yet to be realized... and that is the switching over to a cable clutch when I do a T5 swap.

My .02 cents.

67Dylan · Jul 9, 2006

ddonaca351 said:
Notice how every time you come off a speed bump its going to smash the bottom tubes flat... (ala camaro)

(imho) Get a good set of 1&5/8 UNequal ceramic shortie headers (like the 5.0s use) They make good power, dont drag the ground, leave more room for trans/clutck linkage and lines, steering linkage, sfi bellhousing, etc... etc.... etc....

ddonaca, I couldn't disagree w/you more if you want to make the most amount of power. I would agree if you aren't out for max power; then the shorties are the way to go. I've run shorties in my first mustang, a 91. Then I bought alum heads and went LT's and will never use anything but. Of course if you need to run sfi bell and running juice or NA you prolly have LT's, or should have them. Just MHO.

302 coupe said:
...For me it was either Hookers or something like Accufab, I got a deal on the hookers and have no regrets.

302 coupe, your car looks good! The more I see the cowl hood the more I love it!! I'm glad to read you like your hookers; what size? I need 1 3/4's or 1 7/8's into 3" and was wondering.... Thanks.

xoxbxfx · Jul 9, 2006

you guys are killin me... unless you are making 400-500hp, a shorty vs longtube really isnt gonna matter. Its all preference. Id love to see some actual dyno results of longtubes vs shorties on a mildly modified motor.

67Dylan · Jul 9, 2006

67Dylan · Jul 9, 2006

xoxbxfx said:
you guys are killin me... unless you are making 400-500hp, a shorty vs longtube really isnt gonna matter. Its all preference. Id love to see some actual dyno results of longtubes vs shorties on a mildly modified motor.

Where did you learn that unless making 400-500hp header length doesn't matter? That is a bunch of BS!! As is your comment wanting a side by side dyno comparison; what is that going to tell you? There are TOO many variables; what is the motor built for? What is the operating RPM of the motor? What size motor/head used? etc, etc.
Sure, if you have a nearly stock 302 shortys, for shear cost alone, is the way to go. If you want the most out of the combo LT's built for the combo will produce more power; tube size & length, collector size & length, efficient collector shaping all play an important role in the header design.
If you have shorty's, call Ed Curtis to grind you a cam for the combo; he will and you'll be happy. If you then switch to a LT designed for your car, you will not see as much of a gain as you'd expect. Don't believe me... call Ed and he'll confirm that for you. New cam is needed to take advantage of the new headers.
This is not to say that a LT poorly designed will produce much more power than a shorty, in fact it may produce less power. This also goes w/the dyno results; too many variables involved. Not flaming you, but rather showing there is more than meets the eye. IMO I don't need a dyno to prove what is already known by racers out here.

xoxbxfx · Jul 9, 2006

67Dylan said:
Where did you learn that unless making 400-500hp header length doesn't matter? That is a bunch of BS!! As is your comment wanting a side by side dyno comparison; what is that going to tell you? There are TOO many variables; what is the motor built for? What is the operating RPM of the motor? What size motor/head used? etc, etc.
Sure, if you have a nearly stock 302 shortys, for shear cost alone, is the way to go. If you want the most out of the combo LT's built for the combo will produce more power; tube size & length, collector size & length, efficient collector shaping all play an important role in the header design.
If you have shorty's, call Ed Curtis to grind you a cam for the combo; he will and you'll be happy. If you then switch to a LT designed for your car, you will not see as much of a gain as you'd expect. Don't believe me... call Ed and he'll confirm that for you. New cam is needed to take advantage of the new headers.

I have talked to a couple reputible engine builders here locally that also do engine dyno's... they say the shorty vs long tube doesnt matter that much its primary size. Most people will be close to the same with shorty 1 5/8" headers as they would with 1 5/8" long tubes.

washMO66 · Jul 9, 2006

Hooker Super Comps on my car, love them and after having an 02 Saleen Extreme my 66 feels like a 4X4 as it relates to ground clearance......

Cobain03 · Jul 9, 2006

is there a big issue with hookers as far as clearance in the fenderwell/pitman arm area? i've seen SO many threads about patriot tri y's its not even funny anymore.

67Dylan · Jul 9, 2006

xoxbxfx said:
I have talked to a couple reputible engine builders here locally that also do engine dyno's... they say the shorty vs long tube doesnt matter that much its primary size. Most people will be close to the same with shorty 1 5/8" headers as they would with 1 5/8" long tubes.

Either you misunderstood or they are not as reputable; I don't know which is correct and I don't want to offend anyone.
Primary size matters, but so does the rest that I mentioned in header design; tube length for example. But, if talking about poorly designed LT's vs shorty's I'd agree w/the engine builders. Point being buy quality LT's. LT's that are not mass produced will cost a little more, but will give above average gains. Quality mass produces LT's will give good results and will be good enough for most applications.

LUCAFU1 · Jul 10, 2006

xoxbxfx said:
you guys are killin me... unless you are making 400-500hp, a shorty vs longtube really isnt gonna matter. Its all preference. Id love to see some actual dyno results of longtubes vs shorties on a mildly modified motor.

not true, you will gain power and the area under the curve will see the biggest improvement.

6FIVE_STANG · Jul 10, 2006

ok guys enough with the debating. all i asked for in this thread was, what are the best ceramic headers i can get for my 289 (has c4 tranny) with a budget of $355

302 coupe · Jul 10, 2006

thats a loaded question! There is no one answer. There has been enough information presented for you to make a good decision.

As far as long tubes vs. shorties, go to your local racetrack, doesn't matter if round/oval/straight/dirt/asphalt, and look to see how many guys are running shorty headers. They are a compromised design at best. If you want power you go longtube, if you only want better than stock manifolds you go with shorties. //

D.Hearne · Jul 10, 2006

xoxbxfx said:
you guys are killin me... unless you are making 400-500hp, a shorty vs longtube really isnt gonna matter. Its all preference. Id love to see some actual dyno results of longtubes vs shorties on a mildly modified motor.

I tend to take that side too. A week or so ago, over on the FE big block forum on network54, someone posted a dyno chart of a 428CJ with Hooker long tubes, FPA tri-Y's, 2" primary long tubes and stock 428CJ manifolds. This was a 400+ hp motor. The Hooker long tubes registered the smoothest hp curve, but the 2" primary headers made the highest peak hp, otherwise the 2" headers were neck and neck with the FPA tr-y's till just before the hp peak, then the gap at the peak was only about 10-15hp. The FPA's actually made a little more peak hp than the Hookers. The iron CJ manifolds were at the bottom of the heap, but not as much as you'd think, as restrictive as they look. Sure, longtubes ought to make the most hp overall, but it just ain't so, and when they do it's not by much. For someone looking to eek out every little once of power and don't mind dealing with the problems long tubes cause, yea, I'd say go for them. But if you don't like dealing with the hassles of longtubes (like me), going with shorty's or tri-Y's is what you need to get. Or stick with the factory manifolds, some are not as bad as they're made out to be.

blascrw · Jul 10, 2006

my .02

Well it has been a while since I have posted much...

I personally have patriot Tri-y's ceramic. I like them, they are period correct ...

If you have a 65 with stock 65 motor mounts... STAY AWAY from them...they will hit your pitman arm...ask me how I know...

Opinions are like A$$holes everyone has one.

Having said that I have not seen any side by side tests on an identical motor...

I PERSONALLY do not like long tubes...with the speed bumps in my area they would not last...

If you are just warming up the motor I would recommend hipo cast iron headers...I know I will be shot for saying that...but you will get a good fit, and no clearance issues...and they do flow better...a good shop can build you a custom exhaust with whatever size tube and muffler you want (using reducers or what have you) so you can say I have an x" exhaust...

I personally am a fan of custom bent exhaust done locally so you can oversee it and I like the sound and benefits of an "X" pipe.

Yes the long tubes make a difference, but they were not practicle for me here in my area with my car.

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/26821/

check out this series from MustangMonthly...

"Our first dyno run with Hedman headers and NPD dual exhausts was right off the street without any tuning. We gained 4.8 hp and 4.6 lb-ft of torque by improving the exhaust system. There’s room for more improvement."

This is what most people do...they bolt them on and go...

Read the article installment III is where they do the exhaust.

Now it is your car and do what you can live with...the choice is yours to make.

I like to keep things period correct if it is a nice fairly original car...

I still like my tri-y's even though I will end up changing my mounts.

xoxbxfx · Jul 10, 2006

D.Hearne said:
I tend to take that side too. A week or so ago, over on the FE big block forum on network54, someone posted a dyno chart of a 428CJ with Hooker long tubes, FPA tri-Y's, 2" primary long tubes and stock 428CJ manifolds. This was a 400+ hp motor. The Hooker long tubes registered the smoothest hp curve, but the 2" primary headers made the highest peak hp, otherwise the 2" headers were neck and neck with the FPA tr-y's till just before the hp peak, then the gap at the peak was only about 10-15hp. The FPA's actually made a little more peak hp than the Hookers. The iron CJ manifolds were at the bottom of the heap, but not as much as you'd think, as restrictive as they look. Sure, longtubes ought to make the most hp overall, but it just ain't so, and when they do it's not by much. For someone looking to eek out every little once of power and don't mind dealing with the problems long tubes cause, yea, I'd say go for them. But if you don't like dealing with the hassles of longtubes (like me), going with shorty's or tri-Y's is what you need to get. Or stick with the factory manifolds, some are not as bad as they're made out to be.

Good to see someone knows where Im comin from. $500 for ceramic longtubes, plust the hassle of hangin to low and install, its not worth it to me for that 15hp.

blascrw said:
Opinions are like A$$holes everyone has one.

"Our first dyno run with Hedman headers and NPD dual exhausts was right off the street without any tuning. We gained 4.8 hp and 4.6 lb-ft of torque by improving the exhaust system. There’s room for more improvement."

I agree..everyone has their own opinion. That link is really good. 5hp from headers AND dual exhaust. Thats not squat for $600+ in exhaust.

BDT 1967 · Jul 10, 2006

In my personal opinion i have to agree with both sides, a lt can hurt you if you get the wrong ones, but if you have a cam that is cut to match your header it could be long tube or shorties, you will most likely make more power on the lts's. To be honest with you you’re not going to see a real big difference in power either way you go, As a personal preference I would go with the lt's simply because you can put a set of cut-outs on them to raise hell with the neighbors. On another note 67 topless i hear that there can be problems with the trans crosmember on the 67 verts, did you have any problem with yours, I am thinking on going with a set of lts soon and i have heard some bad experiences.

67topless · Jul 10, 2006

BDT 1967 said:
...On another note 67 topless i hear that there can be problems with the trans crosmember on the 67 verts, did you have any problem with yours, I am thinking on going with a set of lts soon and i have heard some bad experiences.

Nope... no problems with my 4 sp toploader.

Don't mind all the oil... you got to love the rear main seal leak!

BDT 1967 · Jul 10, 2006

67topless said:
Nope... no problems with my 4 sp toploader.

Don't mind all the oil... you got to love the rear main seal leak!

Sweet thanks looks like lots of room left.

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