help a newbie choose between 4.6, 5.0, & 351W?

[TaoOfStang]

It's my first post, so be gentle. I'm looking for a little help from those more knowledgable than myself--basically everyone. I've got a '68 coupe w/289/c4, and I'm looking to upgrade the engine/tranny, and go maybe go EFI. I've already got the Heidt's MII suspension, and it should be finished within the next few weekends (work & golf allowing ). Given that I've already lost the shock towers, which seems to be the main objection when it comes to 4.6 transplants, which way would you go? 4.6, 5.0, or 351W?

Gonna be a daily driver, but I'd like it to have...um...I think the technical term is balls. I do a lot of highway driving, and I'm probably not going to be taking any checkered flags anytime soon (well, maybe the odd unofficial one at a stoplight ), so I think I'm going to go AOD. I'd prefer to be able to buy a donor car (maybe a police package Crown Vic?) and pull the whole enchilada (engine/tranny/accessories?).

Mmmm...enchiladas...

If I've inadvertantly broken a forum rule, or shoved my newbie foot in some newbie orifice, please accept my heartfelt apologies.

TaoOfStang

Hey! You broke ya cherry! -Paulie, Goodfellas

 

[Fostang]

I like 99-up motors SOHC ones for daily driving I'm sure you can ****** one up easily.

That being said you I'd probably do the a 351 windsor efi.

 

[MrBobMarley]

Efi 351 would be sweet. I'd go 4.6 dohc myself, but you're gonna cry when you see what parts cost.

Fostang, do you have any pics of the 67 fb?

 

[one2gamble]

i would have to ask how much money you want to spend before I can give you an answer

 

[no_3]

I just did a 351w with an Edelbrock performer rpm package, everything is sweet, sort of cheap and ballsy.

 

[TaoOfStang]

One2gamble, as far as how much I want to spend, sky's the limit--as long as the sky ends somewhere shy of $7500 for engine/tranny/etc...hehe

I've been searchng through the posts, and the more I do, the more respect I have for the opinions of the posters in this forum. That being said, most of you seem to be choosing the 351 over the rest. Is that 'cause more cubes=good? I've driven mustang 351's, and I can't disagree. Who's driven a 4.6 or 5.0 in a classic, and how did you like it (behind the wheel, as opposed to under the hood ? 5.0 and 351 are relatively drop-in, especially w/ no shock towers, but I know there have to be more than a few mechanical bumps in the road with the 4.6. What are the really big hiccups?

The biggest reason that the 4.6 & 5.0 are on my list is because I think I can get solid donor vehicles for either, and hopefully get some decent performance while making the whole process cheaper/faster/less painful. So what would make a good donor car for the whole she-bang if I went 351w/EFI/AOD? I seem to be fresh out of '95 Cobra R's...

TaoofStang

'68 Coupe
Presently: bone stock 289
Future: ?

 

[MrBobMarley]

About the 351 efi swap, try asking in the 5.0 tech forum. A lot of the guys there swap out their 5.0s for 351s and I'm pretty sure they keep it fuel injected without re-wiring the whole car. I'm not up to snuff on the whole swap, but it's pretty common. So pretty much, if you can go 5.0 efi, you should be able to f.i. the 351 with most of the existing harness for the 5.0.

 

[Max Power]

There are some issues with 351 EFI stuff if I am not mistaken. Hood clearance is one, getting an intake that flows well enough is another.

EFI is of huge benefit if you drive in all seasons, but the electronic controls required to make it work in a classic are daunting. You need computers, wiring, sensors everywhere to feed in to the computers, and you have to convert your fuel system for high pressure electric fuel pumps and returns.

Having seen a dyno test on a 347efi vs. carbureted, there was virtually no power difference. The driveability is a bit better, but is your are driving mostly as a summer weekend cruiser, I don't think EFI comes close to providing benefits in a cost vs. performance analysis.

I would go 351 stroked out to 393 or 408. Mountains of torque at a reasonable cost.

 

[Route666]

For daily driver, reliabilty is the main goal, balls second and fuel economy last, but still important to an extent, in my eyes. I'd suggest a 351W, without a stroker. Perhaps have it bored 0.030" over, to the lovely 357 number. 9.5 or 10 to 1 CR and a good balanced assembly and fit rotating assembly and you're good for reliability. A carb would probably be the best bet if Max's stated EFI dramas exist. Even a 393 or 408 stroker might be as reliable, I don't know. The money you save on this over EFI or a 4.6 you can split up to make up 20 cents per gallon of fuel for a long while.

Anyways, thems my humble opinions.

 

[65fastback2+2]

I just did a 351w with an Edelbrock performer rpm package, everything is sweet, sort of cheap and ballsy.

I just did a roller 5.0 with the Edelbrock performer intake/600cfm Edelbrock carb/95 GT roller cam. It would be a screamin ballser except my 3.00 rear gears. Other than the carb setup, its stock, and I get 18 mpg doin 80 on the highway so for a carb motor with some umph, it friggin rocks. If you did and AOD with some heads, headers and 3.73 posi, it would be a total street killer.

 

[mustang70]

Trickflow makes a lower manifold that will fit on the 351 and can use a 302 upper. Most aftermarket intakes can handle the 351. Especially if it's going to be mild. The fuel rails will have to be widened to work with the 351 as well.

Have you thought about aftermarket fuel injection? This is what I've been looking at myself:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mpfi_sbford.html

 

[Fostang]

Fostang, do you have any pics of the 67 fb?

Pics yeah I got pics of this bucket.

I'm just ticked at it and haven't touched it in months. Plus I've been busy on other projects.

The motor has been in and out 3 times already.

I haven't driven the car in 2 years.

 

[one2gamble]

I dont think 7500 is going to do the 4.6 swap and give you the kind of power your looking for. I vote 351.

 

[one2gamble]

still not dropping that kind of money on heads I know nothing about

 

[TaoOfStang]

Pretty helpful, guys. I appreciate you taking the time.

I just got off the phone with Dave Stribling at DVS Restorations. They're the ones who did (are doing?) the MIB 4.6 restomod project in Mustangs & Ford Mag. In a very friendly way, he informed me that I was an idiot for even considering a 4.6 when all I want is a daily driver that can kick some (minor) ass. This is NOT the first time I've been called an idiot. It's not even the first time today. It's also, unfortunately, not the first time I've been forced to agree--very bad for the self-esteem .

So with the 4.6 on the scrap-heap of my mind, I turn my attention elsewhere. With cool factor out the window, the next batter up is POWER. That 351w is starting to look really good to me. It's a solid, proven engine that can be easily modded into a fairly serious street machine. The downside is I can't for the life of me find out what, if any, donor car could make this easier/cheaper by providing me with engine, tranny, accessories, and maybe EFI. Any suggestions?

So let's leave the "whole enchilada" idea sitting in the microwave for a moment. I figure I can get a decent aftermarket AOD (reverse manual shifting?) for about $1k, and I can nix the EFI (for now). Is there a ford model that I could pull a decent 351w to rebuild + accessories. Or should I just suck it up and buy a crate engine off the shelf, then try to piece together the accessories?

TaoOfStang

 

[66P51GT]

You can do it cheaper if you start with block and go for a simple rebuild. But once you add performance goodies, it is sometimes best to start with a crate... especially if you have never pulled or rebuilt an engine before. Now, I'm not discouraging you from doing it yourself, but be prepared for doing a lot of research and homework to do it right.

Here are some sources for crate motors:
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/main.asp
http://www.f-p-s.com/engines/long_blocks.html
http://www.coasthigh.com/assembly_index.html

Happy Shopping