Help. ASAP. Code 41

fidstang

New Member
Jul 19, 2005
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South Lansing
I have installed my edelbrock RPM heads. Got it up and running with the timing dialed in the pre load set good. It ran great for a week. I ran codes once it was running good and I got
KOEO= 85
CM=33
KOER= 42,33

The 85 code I'm waiting on a new silenoid for the EGR. Code 33 is the CNAP, which on my car when I bought it was missing the smog system and silenoid for the canister.
42 was running rich on the passenger side. Which was fine for me because I had put in 24lb. injector with the stock MAF. I know, I know, but it was lean with the 19's and I had the 24's locally for 75 dollars. fixed my problem, besides the ECM doesn't know their 24's it just uses the tables set up for the 19's. Those making it rich. No need to lecture me on this I know, I plan on getting it dyno tuned once the blower gets installed. Which brings me to my new problem.
I recently installed a Kirban adjustable fuel reg. in place of the stock unit.
I set it to 40psi without the vaccum line connected (felt best there). Redid my intial timing to 18* (tried other settings but I just wants 18) and reset my idle and TPS.
Now I'm running rich on the drivers side bank and the passenger side bank is dropping a 41 code for KOER.
I've tested the sensor and it checks out good. I've swapped the O2's and cleaned the drivers side plugs, reset the ECM/codes and took it for a test drive(15min).
Got back and ran codes agian. Same ones are popping up
KOEO= 85
CM= 33
KOER= 41,33

I need help, I don't know where else to look/start. I need to figure this out by tomorrow so I can install my blower and make my appointment time I have set.
Anyone have this problem before?
 
Code 33 - Insufficient EGR flow detected.
Look for vacuum leaks, cracked vacuum lines, failed EGR vacuum regulator. Check to see if you have 10” of vacuum at the EGR vacuum connection coming from the intake manifold. Look for electrical signal at the vacuum regulator solenoid valves located on the rear of the passenger side wheel well. Using a test light across the electrical connector, it should flicker as the electrical signal flickers. Remember that the computer does not source any power, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.
Check for resistance between the brown/lt green wire on the EGR sensor and pin 27 on the computer: you should have less than 1 ohm.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif


EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.
connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve
apply 5in vacuum to the valve.
if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.
if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.
if engine stumbled, connect vacuum gauge to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 5in vacuum?

if not, check for manifold vacuum at the EGR vacuum valve.
if you have manifold vacuum then connect vacuum gauge to the EGR valve side of the vacuum valve and snap throttle to 2500 RPM.
should read about 5in vacuum

The operation of the EGR vacuum regulator can be checked by using a test light applied across the wiring connector. Jumper the computer into self test mode and turn the key on but do not start the engine. You will hear all the actuators (including the EVR vacuum regulator) cycle. Watch for the light to flicker: that means the computer has signaled the EGR vacuum regulator successfully.

Code 41 or 91 - O2 indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter.

Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

If the O2 sensors are new, try swapping them from side to side. If the problem follows the O2 sensor, it is bad. If it desn't move, then the O2 sensor is not the problem.

Measure the voltage generated by the sensors at the computer. If the voltages are OK, do a cylinder balance test. You may have a bad injector or injecter wiring problem.

Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures. Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure

Clean the 10 pin salt & pepper shaker wiring connectors.
harness02.gif


Code 85 - CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative. Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.
 
I'll check the EGR solenoid and valve better. I know it's getting good vaccum to the solenoid. I haven't checked at the valve yet for vaccum during self test mode.
I've been focussing all of my attention on the injectors and O2 sensors. The O2 sensor check out fine. No shorts, good voltage and heater elements show good resistance. I'll have to do the stand alone check and then recheck the wiring at the ECM and do some more visual checking.
The code 33 and 85 have always been there sence I bought the car. Never had a lean problem before. It was always a 42 code, passenger side running rich.
I've added new heads and put in 24lb. injectors because the old 19's were loud/very loud. After I installed the 24lb injectors I immediately pulled codes after a couple drives. I got the usual 33,85 and also 42. I
I then swapped out the stock reg. for a Kirban adjustable one.
Could this condition be caused by the Kirban fuel reg.?
There are no exhaust leaks or vaccum leaks. I can hear the injectors firing on the passenger side. I just don't understand why it's dropping more fuel on the drivers side then the passenger side. Any insight on why it may be doing this?

Should I try to switch back to the 19's?
Should I try to switch back to the factory fuel reg.?
Would they help or be worth a shot, if so which one should I try first?

one other thing the fuel pressure is set to 40psi with the vaccum line disconnected. Should I try adding more fuel first? I'm just boggled why the plugs on the drivers side a caked on black and the passengers look fine!
 
The Kirban FPR & the 40 PSI are fine, I would leave them alone.

Is the MAF calibrated to match the 24 LB injectors? That's a must have item.

Are all the RH side plugs sooty black or just some of them? If only some of them, but not all, run a cylinder balance test. You may have some bad injector wiring/bad injectors.

No sig and no details about the current configuration makes this more difficult to troubleshoot. You should consider updating your sig from the user control panel.
 
jrichker said:
The Kirban FPR & the 40 PSI are fine, I would leave them alone.

Is the MAF calibrated to match the 24 LB injectors? That's a must have item.

Are all the RH side plugs sooty black or just some of them? If only some of them, but not all, run a cylinder balance test. You may have some bad injector wiring/bad injectors.

No sig and no details about the current configuration makes this more difficult to troubleshoot. You should consider updating your sig from the user control panel.
No the 24lb. injectors are not matched with a MAF. I was told that by installing them with a stock 91 MAF it would cause a rich condition across the board and may cause some starting and idling issues. Which was fine with me because I plan on having a calibrated PMASS unit by next week and also plan on having it dyno tuned shortly after. I just want to have all the bugs out of the system before I go in there.

After I do some intensive testing of the sensor and wiring. If everything checks out good I will be putting back on the 19# injectors to see if the problem is with the sensors and not the ECM wiring or faulty connector.

As for the black soot. It's on all of the plugs on the drivers side. They all look the same and the O2 sensor on the driver side matches with the black soot.
On the passenger side the plugs look like they have a normal condition and the sensor on that side shows the same. A light brown/grey color. No signs of excessive heat or electrode wear.

It's not on just one plug, it's on one bank.
Would a faulty injector of harness cause all of that bank to have the same condition?
I also noticed that after I had installed the Kirban, I had it set to 50psi for a whole day and half. That was with the vaccum line disconnected.
Seems like both sides would of shown the extreme rich condition that I see on the drivers side bank.
 
Let me just add, I went with the 24# units because I did not want to run the 19's and chance running lean. Go figure eh!
My engine is a 1991 short block with a trickflow stage 1 cam, edelbrock RPM heads, edelbrock RPM II intake, underdrive pullies and MAC 1 5/8" unequal length shorties. Intial timing is set to 18* with the spout out. No signs of spark knock and the bitch pulls hard. I don't notice anything but at cruise a slight miss/hesitation and my girlfriend said that at cruise she could see black smoke out of both pipes and there was alot when I got on it. She nows completely nothing about cars. I'm thinking maybe the stock injectors need to go back on and redo the timing, clean plugs and see if the problem goes away.
 
blackn20lx said:
why dont u just get the maf calibrated for the 24's and be done with it. seems to me that it would be the right way to do it and fix ur problems.:SNSign:
The MAF is not my problem. If it was then i would be seeing a rich condition on both banks and there wouldn't be a lean code. Somethings a miss and I need to figure out what it is before my blower install.