Help me decide: 302 based stroker or 351?

99FiveOh · Apr 8, 2007

I'm up in the air on this one. Having tasted boost, I now want to start building up an engine that can handle all the boost this blower can huff out safely. The guy that tuned my car said to go with an R block stroker. I was thinking more along the lines of a 351 based stroker. I figure the cost to build the motors will be about equal so why not go with a 351.

Of course I have to factor in all the swap goodies. Which way is best? I'm on a "family man" budget so I'm kinda looking toward the less expensive path. Guys who have done the 351 swap, how much did you invest in swap parts? Did you buy the best or just what was needed to get it done? I was told by my tuner that by the time I buy all the swap parts I could have gotten into an R302 block.

I either want to go pick up a block from a scrapper and start working on it (351) or start saving for an R302 block.

I welcome ALL opinions.

Grn92LX · Apr 8, 2007

If moneys no object a 351 based stroker will be absoutly insane. But you can go VERY fast with a 347 on motor with pump gas

Do NOT build a s/c 351 based stroker out of a late model block!

99FiveOh · Apr 8, 2007

aren't the late model 351 blocks still more durable than late model 302 blocks?

parchisi · Apr 8, 2007

All in all, to get my mustang on the road with a 408, it cost me around $11-12k including the block, forged internals, heads, machine work, hood, TKO 600, Eaton diff, forged axles, and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. I know this because I borrowed all the money for it from my dad and he kept a tab of what I owed him.

turbogt · Apr 8, 2007

The_Mustang said:
aren't the late model 351 blocks still more durable than late model 302 blocks?

Yes, yes they are.. but a 69ish 351 is alot stronger yet..

94GTLaserRC · Apr 9, 2007

parchisi said:
All in all, to get my mustang on the road with a 408, it cost me around $11-12k including the block, forged internals, heads, machine work, hood, TKO 600, Eaton diff, forged axles, and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. I know this because I borrowed all the money for it from my dad and he kept a tab of what I owed him.

What kind of power are you getting out of this??

ALSO: If you want boost, and a 351, why does the 351 have to be a stroker? A boosted 351 will be insane with boost, stroked or not.

RC

99FiveOh · Apr 9, 2007

94GTLaserRC said:
What kind of power are you getting out of this??

ALSO: If you want boost, and a 351, why does the 351 have to be a stroker? A boosted 351 will be insane with boost, stroked or not.

RC

Ok, so I can just get me a block and fill it with nice forged standard bore/stroke stuff and be all set. does anyone know if the late 80's 351's had forged pistons like the 302 HO motors had?

black94gt50 · Apr 9, 2007

With the 351 your gonna run into alot more money and all the little things are gonna add up alot. With the 351 based motor you gotta think , if your gonna do it right your gonna have to spend around 1000-1500 on heads that will support the cubic inch you will have, your gonna have to beef the rear end up, and also the transmission, different motor mounts, a aftermarket hood(although it is possible to get the 351 under a stock hood, but it calls for motor mounts that are hard to find), your gonna have to do the whole tuning thing over again, which im sure you found out isnt cheap, and also buy the common bolts on to support the bigger cubic inch motor, all in all i'd say it will be more practical and alot cheaper to build a 302 based motor.

99FiveOh · Apr 9, 2007

Problem is with a blower a built 302 can be split in half pretty easily. Hell, with a little more tuning the blower could have been in block splitting territory alone!

A hood is already in my plans because I'm going with a saleen kit and want the hood to match. For starters I just want to get myself a stock 351 longblock and get it installed. With forced induction I don't need to concern myself as much with cylinder head flow and such. I made over 400 to the wheels with my stock E7's!! I'm sure a 351 with E7's would make more. What I'm after is not necessarily MORE power, but being able to make the power I have safely. Plus with a 351 there's lot of room to grow.

ProKiller · Apr 9, 2007

don't forget you'll need a different lower intake. you do what you want, but you going to spend more money on the supporting hardware than you are on the r302 block. you could get a dart 302 and stroke it to 347+ and have more rigidity than a stock 351 block.

my advice to you would be to sit down and research a 351 swap. draw up all the parts you would need and make a list of the parts. then do the same for a r302 stroker. compare from there...

shhak · Apr 9, 2007

My vote goes to a 438" dart based windsor. Built one last year and if you shop around, you can do it relitively resonable. I got the short block, which consisted of a dart block, eagle crand and rods, J&E pistons, a good set of rings and bearings, all balanced and assembled, for $3899. Then I got a set of CNC'd Dart Pro 1 heads for $2200. I put in a healthy solid roller cam, a victor jr intake and a holley 1050 carb. All total I think I had about $9,000 in it. It made 783hp on 110 octane N/A. You won't need such a big cam and won't be running 14.5:1 compression so you'll be able to run pump gas with you S/C. Again, my vote is for a windsor.

reddy351 · Apr 9, 2007

351w...hands down! Chuck the 5.0 based stuff.

You are building a blown Mustang on a "family man" budget. I think you can afford to do either that you choose. I have a line on an 80k mile FI roller 351w. I am seriously considering buying it for a future swap into my '94.

The only thing I would swap internally on a late model 351w that's getting boost would be forged pistons. The crank and rods are fine for almost any combo. (Get some light weight rods, if you really want to spend the $500.)

It's funny. Everytime somebody mentions swapping in a 351w into their GT, there are always a lot of people who (have never done it) say that you shouldn't do it, or try to talk them out of it. What gives? The 351w is the same family as the 302w that comes in our cars from the factory. Yes, you have to swap out the oil pan, distributor and get some 95 Cobra R headers but, that's really the only expense over building a 302w. The tranny will work behind a 351w just as easily as it will the 302w. The rear-end is going to need some strengthening because of power level, whether a 351w or 302w is making that power. They use the same engine mounts, especially if you are going to use a hood with some sort of extra clearance. I just don't get it.

99FiveOh · Apr 9, 2007

That's what I'm talking about. There will be minimal engine building cost to get into the 351 and then all swap parts,which most of them used could be had for less than 1K.

And R302 would cost 1700.00. Then machining it would be another 500-800 bucks. Then add in the cost of the stroker kit at over 1K. Minimal cost would be around 3K! Windsor short block from scrap yard would be 50 bucks. A set of GT40 heads will be 500 used or so. swap parts for a grand. Hood for 300. That's less than 2K for a complete engine rather than 3K just for the short block. I'm probably gonna go with 351 and see where it takes me.

99FiveOh · Apr 9, 2007

Another thing, anyone who has done this swap with an S trim, does it all just bolt right back on? Any clearance issues with the blower hitting the body? I know it almost makes contact now.

parchisi · Apr 9, 2007

I dont' know about the S-trim, but the P1-SC-2 I just installed looked pretty close in the pictures, and it was even closer for the installation on my 408, but it clears. Refilling the windshield washer fluid reservoir is going to be a chore though.

parchisi · Apr 9, 2007

94GTLaserRC said:
What kind of power are you getting out of this??

ALSO: If you want boost, and a 351, why does the 351 have to be a stroker? A boosted 351 will be insane with boost, stroked or not.

RC

I wouldn't recommend going with my combo...it was meant to be emissions legal. You'd want bigger heads and my camshaft is pretty mild. Suffice it to say though, it made "enough" power...at least for a while...

trav_19 · Apr 9, 2007

the 351 uses the exact same pulley set up you have on your 302 im in the process of doing my 408 and everyone tried to talk me out of it too but really your going to spend about the same money to do a stroker 302...as mentioned you will need a new distrubitor oil pan and headers well thats probley all stuff you would upgrade when going to a 302 stroker so i didn;t factory any of that into my plan and also you will need a intake with a 351 lower and new fuel rails but again if your building a motor you need a new intake most of the time anyways all in all you can get a 351 based stroker for the same or relatively close costs of building a 302 stroker you just have to shop around to find the deals...

also pokageeks doing a 408 build too so im sure he will chime in at some point..

86bluecobra · Apr 9, 2007

Personally I would go with a 351w based stroker or a 351w by it self. But sit down and count the cost first. No man should start a project without counting the cost because if you don't you might find yourself selling your project 90% complete because you ran out of money and you need the cash.

parchisi · Apr 9, 2007

86bluecobra said:
Personally I would go with a 351w based stroker or a 351w by it self. But sit down and count the cost first. No man should start a project without counting the cost because if you don't you might find yourself selling your project 90% complete because you ran out of money and you need the cash.

Then take that cost and add 2 grand.

99FiveOh · Apr 9, 2007

trav_19 said:
the 351 uses the exact same pulley set up you have on your 302 im in the process of doing my 408 and everyone tried to talk me out of it too but really your going to spend about the same money to do a stroker 302...as mentioned you will need a new distrubitor oil pan and headers well thats probley all stuff you would upgrade when going to a 302 stroker so i didn;t factory any of that into my plan and also you will need a intake with a 351 lower and new fuel rails but again if your building a motor you need a new intake most of the time anyways all in all you can get a 351 based stroker for the same or relatively close costs of building a 302 stroker you just have to shop around to find the deals...

also pokageeks doing a 408 build too so im sure he will chime in at some point..

Yeah, I can build a stroker out of a stock 302 for the cost of swapping to a 351, but I couldn't build an R302 based engine with that kind of money.

All the parts to fit a 351 into the car still won't come close to the initial block investment alone (R302 or the like). I just want something that will last. And I want to take full advantage of what the S trim has to offer! I'm guessing (could be wrong) that if I left everything the same and installed a 351 with stock everything, I'd make more than I'm making now, and it would be safe.

Help me decide: 302 based stroker or 351?

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