Help me diagnose engine failure!

[Invictus]

Alright so i'm driving down a highway just taking off from a redlight, not hard on it or anything at all in fact very easy on it beacuse my grandfather was with me... all of the sudden a huge power loss like the motor is struggling simply to stay on, i slip the clutch and just give it the slightest bit of gas to get me movin enough to clear the highway and immediately shut it off and coast into a nearby parking lot. the car was kinda shaky and making a horrible noise maybe like there is no oil in it or anything, something awkward and metal to metal sounding..

no oil spill underneath, oil is perfect level... nothing wrong from looking under the hood.

latest mod is stage 1 COMP cams (262) about 600 miles ago with abs. no problem since then. in fact just moments before the car was running like a dream I even commented to my friend earlier today "damn it feels like its running better than ever". and now this..

what are the symptoms of a thrown rod? please dont tell me that .. =X im hoping its something to do with maybe a roller rocker or something? any advice appreciated and I guess i'll start tearing into it tomorrow morning.

4.6L v8 w/ 32,700 miles btw

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i've pulled the valve covers. all is well on driver side. on passenger side the roller rocker closest to the firewall was off of the spring down in the head. so i figured that was my problem! well the cam happened to be in the perfect position to slide the rocker right back on no problem, it wasn't bent or scratched or anything all looked fine. put the valve covers back on hooked everything up, the engine barely fired and immedaltey died without even giving a hint to try.

pulled the passenger side and again the same rocker was thrown, down in the head......

whats the problem??? Acmillr suggested I may have tightned down the girdles a bit much causing some interferene but then again the car has been running beautifully for 650+ miles until just now... please help me out i'd like to get it running before i lift the engine out of her!

Latest mod: comp 262 cams

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btw: all valves look to be as they should be... i'm not the most skilled mechanic so i'm not sure what exactly I should be looking for but looking at the driver side, then looking at the pass. side everything looks fine! and it's only stage I comp cams, i did not update valve springs as they wen're required (not even for stage II) . my friend has the exact cams in his 2v and he's been good for 35k miles on stock springs! i'll post a pic of exactly how it looks when i removed the valve cover in a few min

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/versailees/rocer.jpg

 

[RandyStinchcomb]

2 things come to mind.
1st is the right side cam was not properly timed, happens alot on the rightside
and 2 you have had a PTV contact issue and have prob bent some valves.

you should NOT try and run the engine anymore and do a leak-down test. chances are you'll have to pull that head, have some valves re-placed and go from thier

 

[Invictus]

does it seem logical for this to all of the sudden happen out of the blue after it beautifully running for over 600 miles? if I had some PTV clearance issue woudlnt i have noticed it immediately because i doubt it would move over time could it be anything else simple or am I probably out luck?

also, i'm already in the works for a new motor. what would be a better bet for me money wise?

a complete terminator motor from an 03 cobra with 34,000 miles on it supercharged, or a forged shortblock that I can throw a vortech s/c kit on or something like that? which do you think would last longer / be more logical for a daily driver / strip car

 

[04YELLOWGT]

03 Cobra Motors are great motors but can still have problems. If it were me... well what I just did, new short block from VT engines thats good for around 700+rwhp. Throw on a Vortech T-Trim with supporting mods and call it a day. Plus a high horsepower centri car is alot more streetable than a high horsepower roots style car.

 

[Mike97gt]

you should not be able to remove and install those rockers without compressing the spring..

I think you have some broken valve springs and bent valves, the two rockers that fell out is most likely where your bent valves are.. who installed your cams???

 

['01 Steed]

Okay, did you degree the cams? If so, did you use Fidanza adjustable gears?

If not, do you have Patriot heads?

I'm with the others....sounds like a bent/bound valve, whatever the root cause.

 

[Invictus]

i installed them myself about 3 months ago using a cam chain retention tool from ford anderson motorsports and no they were not degreed. i'm not that worried about it, a new motor has been in the works for a long time now so this has given me a good excuse

thatnks for the advice, looks like i'll get a valve job on the motor before i sell it or who knows maybe i'll just keep it in the garage just in case. thanks for the advice 04yellowgt just out of curiosity how much was the vt motor setup wihtout the blower?

thanks for all the posts guys, Frank

 

[04YELLOWGT]

The short block was a little under $4k and then cams and springs were $700 on sale. Then I had about $1200 to intall everything. Not cheap but well worth the money. Like Ive said in other posts when/ if you start making big power with a blower start looking at a Cobra tank and pumps and upgrading the MAF.

 

[Invictus]

doesn't sound to bad... how much power did you make n/a and with the blower @ how much boost? what type of shortblock is it and what type of cams did you get? looks like im going to go your route, i was ready to get an 04 dohc cobra motor with a t56 and all accessories for $7200 but i'd much rather have a shortblock with a centri vortech or procharger as you stated

 

[trinity_gt]

i installed them myself about 3 months ago using a cam chain retention tool from ford anderson motorsports and no they were not degreed. i'm not that worried about it, a new motor has been in the works for a long time now so this has given me a good excuse

thatnks for the advice, looks like i'll get a valve job on the motor before i sell it or who knows maybe i'll just keep it in the garage just in case. thanks for the advice 04yellowgt just out of curiosity how much was the vt motor setup wihtout the blower?

thanks for all the posts guys, Frank

If/when you do find out exactly what happened, can you please update this thread? This winter I just had some 262AHs installed with stock springs and would like to learn of any issues with this setup before I start putting miles on the car with spring just around the corner.

What actually failed? Journal seized? Spring(s) broke? PTV? Would love to know...

 

[Invictus]

Still do not know either... I installed the same cams as well COMP 262s stage I.

The car ran beautifully on the first crank after the install and I put over 600 miles on them with never one problem, it didnt even happen while racing it was just normal every day driving then all of the sudden clink clink clink and no power.

I thought it was just a thrown rocker due to a collapsed lash adjuster but all ahve been changed and problem exists. I'm thinking it is a ptv issue but i'm not sure and probably will not find out because a new engine has been in the works for a while now and this is the perfect opportunity.

 

[trinity_gt]

...and probably will not find out because a new engine has been in the works for a while now and this is the perfect opportunity.

Well once this one is out, why not do a bit of forensics on it? Shouldn't take that much work to tear into it and find out what went wrong.

 

[Invictus]

Well, I was using the search function to try and figure out something and came along my old thread...

To let you guys know what went wrong:

When we pulled the motor everything looked fine, but for those of you who have done the swap you realized there is a little keyhold in the cam itself, then the cam gear has a little notch in it that slips into the keyhole of the cam and then slides on. Well, on my cam gear, that notch was completely carved out and shaved down to the point where it was just spinning freely over the cam. Luckily I did not damage any valves or anything like that, the timing was shot way off. I had the gears replaced and the cams degreed and timed for a total of $490 and I Was good to go. Also, I picked up 21 RWHP and 34 RWTQ SAE corrected from the comp 262 stg. 1 swap.

Since then i've pulled the motor and sold it and i'm now in the process of putting in an 04' cobra motor with a list of bolt ons. A few paychecks and i'll have a whipple on the way for it!

Sorry for keeping you guys in the dark, just a word of advice: If you are doing this cam swap, keep your foot out of it until you have the cams timed and degreed properly. Afterwards, a custom dyno tune will work wonders. I was full throttle not 30 minutes after comleting the swap and she ran fine for about 400 miles then finally decided to give up :x

Frank