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Help me dispel some BS!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter The Tobacconist
  • Start date Start date Jun 28, 2004
T

The Tobacconist

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Jun 28, 2004
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#1
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #1
We have some clown on our local street racing forums making some pretty outlandish claims about his 83’ Cougar with a 302 and 351.

Basically he persistently insisted that his 302 would spin all the way to 8000 rpm (later it was confirmed that he wired his tach as a V6, though he does not admit to it ) despite the fact that he was running E7TE heads which flow 160/120 stock and even with a top dollar port job can’t flow enough to feed an 8000rpm 302.

When we finally started to call him on the BS, then 302 blew up. A few months later he came out with a 351. Now he is running the same heads with the additional porting and bigger valves (yeah like those heads flowed enough for the 8000rpm 302 before that!!!!). He has cited that the heads now flow 194 int 155 ex which is pretty much the absolute maximum E7TE heads can flow with a PROFESSIONAL port job and the motor now revs to 7000 rpm.

On a 302:

1) What kind of head flow would be required for an 8000rpm motor and does that indeed exceed the capabilities of ported E7TE heads?

2) Can the stock rotating assembly support 8000rpm, if not, what do you need?

3) What kind of valve train is required for 8000rpm, light weight valves, titanium retainers, fully rollerized rockers etc?

On a 351

1) At what rpm will peak power occur on 194/155 flowing heads?

2) He is running a stock truck cast iron intake manifold, can a 7000rpm motor run with this?

3) Again can a stock truck 351 rotating assembly live at 7000rpm?

Please help us finally shut this guy up! His mouth runs faster than his car which has so far only been able to keep up with stock Honda Civic’s and he’s just an embarrassment to all of us in the domestic crowd.

BTW

What is the MAXIMUM flow anyone can get out of E7TE castings and can you post some flow charts.
 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end
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#2
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #2
1. Not sure about the numbers, but let's just say that there isnt an off the shelf set of heads that'll do it without some SERIOUS professional porting.

2. No. Not even if Jesus himself built it. You need an internally balanced billet steel crank for starters....

3. Exactly what you typed....titanium valves and springs, rollorized everything....

As for a 351W, i've never heard of one running those kinds of RPM. Either way, neither motor will rev that high with those heads. You can port the hell out of E7s and they'll never support 8k RPM. I'm by no means an expert and i've surely not tried this myself, but i couldnt imagine it. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it.
 
R

ratrapp

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Jun 28, 2004
#3
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #3
is he saying it will rev up to 8k sitting still or under a load?big difference.
 
T

The Tobacconist

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#4
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #4
Can some one post flow charts for fully ported E7TE heads.
 

ECU5.0

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Jan 10, 2004
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Jun 28, 2004
#5
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #5
Lift Ported E7TE(Thumper)
.400 196/150.5
.500 218.9/154
.600 219.9/160



courtesy of www.thumperoforangepark.com
 
8

87'GTstang

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Feb 16, 2004
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#6
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #6
Things need to be forged where applicable and some serious lightweight parts need to be used. E7's never fed a 302 the air it needed and there's no way it'll do a 351 justice. A 351 is a totally different beast. With a stroke of 3.5", 8000 rpm is a hell of a flying catastrophe if it makes it there - it is a low-rev torque producer, 8000 rpm isn't in it's league. Indeed it can be done, but not without a good 5 grand at the absolute minimum, 10 grand for a job well-done.

I wouldn't call BS on the 8000 rpm on his 302, because afterall, look what he did to it
 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end
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Nov 11, 2003
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Jun 28, 2004
#7
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #7
There's an old article about Rick Anderson building an 8200rpm redline 302 based stroker, and he put well over 10k JUST IN THE BLOCK, that's not counting the unbelieveable amount of porting to the upper and lower intakes and the heads, which themselves had over 3k worth of porting. 8k rpm 302s are going to cost some serious cash, something to the tune of 20k to do it right, and by that i mean get it to 8k without flying apart. Add all that to what it's going to take to support 8k rpm in the fuel system and ignition system, and you're looking at close to 30k easily.
 

88stangmangt

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Nov 25, 2003
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#8
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #8
he is a tool........
 

408stroker5.0

The world would be a better place if all males jus
Mar 10, 2004
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Jun 28, 2004
#9
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #9
Spring's, Cam, Rod's, Crank etc. etc. would never last to 8000RPM. Cam would stop making power way before 8000, and valve's would float like a MF.
 

Michael Yount

Mustang Master
Apr 10, 2002
9,039
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Charlotte, NC
Jun 28, 2004
#10
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #10
Folks here (see above) will give you lots of reasons to throw at him. But based on your description, it's likely he won't listen - and nothing will shut him up. Why don't you just ignore him?
 

88stangmangt

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Nov 25, 2003
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Jun 28, 2004
#11
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #11
Why don't you just ignore him?[/QUOTE said:
seriously............... talk is cheap dont worry about it.
Click to expand...
 

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash
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#12
  • Jun 28, 2004
  • #12
85_SS_302_Coupe said:
2. No. Not even if Jesus himself built it. You need an internally balanced billet steel crank for starters....
Click to expand...
Pretty tough to argue with that.
 
8

87'GTstang

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#13
  • Jun 29, 2004
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Michael Yount said:
Folks here (see above) will give you lots of reasons to throw at him. But based on your description, it's likely he won't listen - and nothing will shut him up. Why don't you just ignore him?
Click to expand...
Ditto - they'll just keep on rollin' with how great what they have is and you can never beat it and you only wish you had one too..........yeah, that sums it all up I think.
 

ashford

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Dec 19, 2003
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Jun 29, 2004
#14
  • Jun 29, 2004
  • #14
grab an old engine dwell/tack gague and show him how off his tack is

the ratio on his tach would be 8:6 so at 6000 rpm he shows 8000, so his 7000rpm 351 would be at 5250.
 
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