Help me.....im feeling pretty worried

[OrangeMustangGt]

After about 2 weeks of changing my head gaskets, using arp studs, and 9333-pt1 headgaskets, i think i may have a problem, maby you can help me.

When i first start up my car, once it gets warm it would go to middle of the heat gauge quite fast, then i would shut it down, and find that it was low on coolant. I drove the car for about an hour after this with no problems. today i went out for a drive, and again it did the same thing, it would be on dead cold, then the temp guage would rise quite fast, so i pull over, and again i was low on coolant.......So i topped it off again, and drove for an hour to try and get an aligmnent, right as i was getting into the neighborhood, the temp guage started rising fast again, so when i got home i checked and it was low on coolant again!!!
Ive only driven the car about an 2 hours worth since i changed the headgaskets, and it did this almost immediatally after i got it running....im REALLY worried the headgaskets are blown again, but it isnt shooting coolant out of the overflow tank like it was, but the tank Is getting a little bit more full than i had put it.

So i ask, no Hope, that my problem is that im still getting air out of the system, and thats why it keeps going low, as i had to drain the block when i put the new studs in....so how much air really gets trapped, and is there a good way to bleed it and know for sure all the air is gone?

I really dont want to change headgaskets again...........I really maby should get the a/f checked on the dyno.....again.

 

[S/CBlack95GT]

Take the cap off and let it run for a while with the heater on. It will start to puke coolant out from the radiator, but that is ok. Watch for bubbles to emerge as well. Eventually they should stop as all the air is removed. You may see the coolant rise then drop quickly as some air is removed, so be ready to pour more coolant in. This is about the only way to remove the air at one time or it will keep doing what you have described.

 

[blksn955.o]

you did get the HG on correct right? If you put one on backward it will heat up quick.

check the lower intake gasket for leaks at the head, sometimes they will leak at the front or rear coolant passage, sometimes even down to the oil pan so check your oil...like drain it and see if coolant is in there.

I would check the temp with a known good guage if your base is off the stock temp guage, also check the wire, mine got a tear in the sleave of the wire and was grounding out on the intake ever so slightly and would make it off.

I burpd' mine for about 20-25min. to get the bubbles out.

 

[Rootus]

check the lower intake gasket for leaks at the head, sometimes they will leak at the front or rear coolant passage, sometimes even down to the oil pan so check your oil...like drain it and see if coolant is in there.

Quick tip -- just loosen the plug to the point where oil starts to seep out. Water sinks to the bottom, and it is much thinner than oil, and so if you don't see any water by the time you see oil start seeping around the threads... then there's no water in the oil. Doing it this way will save a unnecessary oil change if all you want to do is check.

Dave

 

[SWYZ721]

Because water is thinner than oil (meaning that it is less dense), then wouldn't the water be at the top and the oil at the bottom, when considering gravity and whatnot.

 

[RIO5.0]

Maybe it is still purging air??...especially if its sucking down the o/flow...thats what mine did to.....pull the temp sensor on top of the intake and take a peak...In your case you wanna see no coolant, meaning its low and still air in the system...
Coolant right there, and she should be full....

Good luck with it....damn depressing ain't it... Hang in there bro....

 

[MysteryMachine]

Old trick put a tylanol in your t stat to hold it open. It holds it opens and lets the air out faster it will disinagrate (sp?) and work normal after it flows through enough. Also like everybody else said keep your cap off let the car run for a while watch for bubbles you can hold your hand over the hole to keep it from spilling out untill it gets to hot to stand

 

[Zero Signal]

Water is much denser than oil so yes, it will sink to the bottom of the sump. And if he is losing it to the oil pan that quickly, then you will definitely see water come out. But you will need to let your car sit for a day or two to make sure it separates otherwise you will probably just get a nice homogenized milk shake (but I haven't seen that in person).

 

[94-302-vert]

Fill the radiator (try to park aiming up a hill if you can) and keep squeezing the upper radiator hose. This forces the air out.

if you do not smell the burnign antifreeze (trust me you will smell it and see it with no cats) and it is not in the oil (oil will look like a milkshake) then you probbaly are jsut vapor locked... when no more will go into the radiator by squeezing the upper rad hose put lots of coolant in the overflow and run it up to temp and it should start self purging...


Is your low coolant light coming on too or is it jsut that the car is getting very hot that is warning you?

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

ok, i know i dont have coolant in the oil, its not milkshakeish at all, Also, its not blowing out clouds of white smoke like it was......and when i went up hill in my driveway last time is when it started rising the temp.

i am a bit worried tho, because the headgaskets i have were one part number, meaning the same part but 2 of them, so did i get 2 of the same side? i thought they were universal, so you could just flip one over.....damn i really really hope im ok.

 

[go-stang5.0]

Sounds like air in the cooling system like everyone said. But about the head gaskets...both head gaskets should be the same theoretically since the heads are reversible also. But there is probably one side that should be facing up and one side facing down....depending on the gasket you used. Oh and the low coolant light is connected to the reservoir so it wont really tell you if you have enough coolant in the system. It only works when the system is working properly (no air in the system...which is not your case) and your reservoir is low.

 

[v6v8swap]

That sounds normal for the gaskets being the same. They just go on differently to match up to the passages in the block/heads. I think that you would have a really hot engine really fast if the head gasket(s) was/were installed wrong. I think it's just burping a lot of air out since you had to drain so much coolant when you did the head gasket swap. I wish that Ford would have designed a purging point on the 5.0 like they did on the 3.8 v6. It has a nice plug to take off to burp out the air up above the thermostat area. That would make this process a lot easier and less stressful in your case. Let us know how it goes and good luck.
Phil

 

[Pokageek]

"you did get the HG on correct right? If you put one on backward it will heat up quick."

This is absolutely true. The have to go on a certain way. Same exact problem my cousin had. Hang in there ..pretty nerve-racking.

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

ok guys...thanks for your help. I decided to drive it to work today...BAD IDEA, by the time i was there, it had puked out all its coolant. i filled it up, and drove it to the jobsite. when i went to leave, the engine was cold, however when i wnt to pop the rad cap, it had ALOT of pressure built up in there.....and on the way home, my temp gauge would rise as i gave it gas, and go down when i let off.....so im thinkin headgaskets!!!! OH man.....this sucks

OK, so, what gaskets should i get this time? These ones dident seem to work AT all....i dident even get to drive it at all.

Here are some possible problems i was thinking about what went wrong:

Wrong gaskets? i used the same exact gasket part number for each head....one was just installed upside down, they were felpro 9333-pt1 i believe.

warped head?

Bad tune? i got a new Maf that was suposed to be the same as the old one, but when i do get it done, i WILL have it checked.


How are copper gaskets, and MLS gaskets? what should i use, this really sucks.?

thanks guys

 

[urban96]

can you pressure test the cooling system? before tearing the heads off again. what about a compression test

 

[nmcgrawj]

I dont think the head gaskets are really to blame...its gotta be a malfunction somewhere else like the block or head surface, or tune maybe. Those HG's are proven by your fellow turbo fellas to work in high boost applications....so they DO WORK! So as long as thats the case, i would save my money rather than buying cometics.

 

[blksn955.o]

Yes one HG will have to be put on upside down to be installed corectly.

remove your rad. cap.

remove one plug at a time while rotating the motor to the comp stroke.

pump about 100psi into the spark plug hole with a air gun or they do make a setup to screw into the plug hole.

look at the coolant to see if you see bubbles.

I had a very sim. issue with a bad HG, the engine did not get any cross contam. but with this test I had bubbles and exh. gasses were getting into my coolant. The exh. gasses will be like a super heater for the coolant and you simply cannot cool if off. They also make a tester for exh. gasses in coolant.

Remember, our eec is load based so if you have a meter that is fooling the eec in anyway with out it being spot on...the load will be wrong and could put you at risk of too much timing. Just because it is the same type of MAF does not it is EXACTLY the same as the one you had your setup tuned with.

 

[bill302]

can you pressure test the cooling system? before tearing the heads off again. what about a compression test

my thoughts exactly urban96 with a pressure test you can pinpoint the exact cylinder or cylinders left or right head, intake gasket ect...responsible. i would def. run a cooling system pressure test before disassembling.

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

thanks guys, that is a great idea......i am really thinking i may have warped the head, as it DID get quite hot when it origionally went. I will do that test, and tommorow see what happins. Just to clearify, there ISNT a left and a Right gasket correct? The same part number 9333pt1, i had used on each side.

My next question is How easy should a head warp? And can i run the risk of also warping my BLOCK?

Btw the surfaces were clean.

 

[blksn955.o]

Correct on the gasket...same part number just one of the gaskets is upside down to get the correct holes forward.

You have iron heads right? They are not the easiest things to warp...I have seen some motors get preaty hot and not warp the heads...maybe narf the bearings before the heads/block.

If you have to pull them though, maybe get them milled just alittle to make sure they are flat and to make sure you have a good surface...would be the perfect time.

Also what headbolts did you use? I would realy sug. ARP studs with a boosted setup...ARP bolts at the VERY LEAST. A stock replacement (our stock bolts cannot be reused) is just not going to cut it. Also a bi-trq rate on the lower v. upper bolts to help counter act the wedge of the block and the intake bolts that can sometimes put a "upward" pull on the heads is a good idea if you didnt last time.