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HELP NO START

  • Thread starter Thread starter surfandturf
  • Start date Start date Feb 28, 2009
S

surfandturf

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Feb 28, 2009
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Cincinnati, OH
Feb 28, 2009
#1
  • Feb 28, 2009
  • #1
I have a 1987 T-Top mustang. Here are the parts I used Speed pro dish -6 pistons, Total seal rings gaped by machine shop, F303 cam, cast world heads, 1.6 rockers, cobra upper and lower intake, 70mm tb, 42# ford injectors, mass air conversion, vacuum fuel pressure regulator, Powerdyne supercharger, eec is out of a cally car.
New msd coil, plugs and wires.

Powerstart starter Car cranks slow, ( plugs out crank fine) Car has spark and fuel. 1# had no compression so I adjusted rockers. Now has compression I found tdc. Still no start. Pull plugs engine smells flooded This is my first modified computer car................. Any suggestions?
 

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time
15 Year Member
Mar 23, 2007
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Feb 28, 2009
#2
  • Feb 28, 2009
  • #2
So, does the MAF have a calibration for the 42 lb/hr injectors? If not, then that is the problem.
 

ThePumpkin

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Jan 26, 2009
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Feb 28, 2009
#3
  • Feb 28, 2009
  • #3
If you hold the pedal to the floor while you crank, that will get rid of your flooding.
Try unplugging the MAF and see if that starts your car.
 
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surfandturf

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Feb 28, 2009
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Feb 28, 2009
#4
  • Feb 28, 2009
  • #4
I am not sure, I bought the setup off of a running car, I think so. How do you check and how do you know if eec is bad?
 
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surfandturf

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Feb 28, 2009
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Feb 28, 2009
#5
  • Feb 28, 2009
  • #5
It will try to kick over when you open the throttle but no start and still strong gas smell
 

jrichker

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#6
  • Feb 28, 2009
  • #6
Computers in 5.0 Mustangs almost never fail. It is usually an sensor or wiring problem, so don't waste money buying a computer. Buy a book instead.
Here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $25-$35 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select boo...com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167158.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 87 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8016715e.gif
Ignition wiring diagram, 87 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8016715f.gif
Computer/fuel pump wiring diagram, 88 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167162.gif[
Ignition wiring diagram, 88 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167163.gif

AutoZone.com | Vehicle Selection - Year for 89-93 model Mustangs
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 89-90 cars http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8019595f.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 91-93 cars
http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195960.gif

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:

A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.


If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector wiring.
The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.99 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.
 
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surfandturf

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Feb 28, 2009
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Cincinnati, OH
Mar 3, 2009
#7
  • Mar 3, 2009
  • #7
Thanks for all of the info, I printed the book for online. Distributor was bad and now I am getting some codes to continue with and get this project done. I have 54,81,82 any suggestions? Now need to get tuned and work the codes out.
 

ThePumpkin

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Jan 26, 2009
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Mar 3, 2009
#8
  • Mar 3, 2009
  • #8
54-air charge temperature circuit open
81- map has not changed normally
82- super charger bypass circuit failure
 

jrichker

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#9
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  • #9
ThePumpkin said:
54-air charge temperature circuit open
81- map has not changed normally
82- super charger bypass circuit failure
Click to expand...

That's pretty far off base, only the code 54 is anywhere close to being correct.

See the results below for 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions:

Code 54 – ACT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ACT sensor. Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the ACT can be in error.

Check the resistance of the black/white wire to battery ground. If it is less than 1.5 ohm, it is good. If it is more than 1.5 ohm, the black/white wire has bad connections or a broken wire. Always take resistance measurements with the circuit powered off.

Then check the resistance of the ACT sender located in the #5 intake runner on most 5.0 stangs.

ACT & ECT test data:

The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. at 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. at 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer. Here's the table :

68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.
50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms

Code 81 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM2. The solenoid valve located on the back side of the passenger side wheel well is not functional. Possible bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Lt Green/Black wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve.

With the with the ignition on, look for 12 volts on the red wire on the solenoid connector. No 12 volts and you have wiring problems.

With the engine running, stick a safety pin in the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve & ground it. That should turn the solenoid on and cause air to flow out the port that goes to the pipe connected to the cats. If it doesn't, the valve is bad. If it does cause the airflow to switch, the computer or wiring going to the computer is not signaling the solenoid valve to open.

Putting the computer into self test mode will cause the solenoid valve to toggle. If you listen carefully, you may hear it change states.

Code 82 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM1. Possible bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Red/White wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve

With the engine running, stick a safety pin in the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve & ground it. That should turn the solenoid on and cause air to flow out the port that goes to the pipe connected to the heads. If it doesn't, the valve is bad. If it does cause the airflow to switch, the computer or wiring going to the computer is not signaling the solenoid valve to open.

Both 81 & 82 codes usually mean that some uneducated person removed the solenoid control valves for the Thermactor Air system in an attempt to make the car faster. It doesn't work that way: no working control valves can cause the cat converters to choke and clog.
 

ThePumpkin

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Jan 26, 2009
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Missouri
Mar 3, 2009
#10
  • Mar 3, 2009
  • #10
i just googled them...
FORD 1983-1995 OBD1 Decoder
I am not surprised that they are wrong.
 

jrichker

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#11
  • Mar 3, 2009
  • #11
ThePumpkin said:
i just googled them...
FORD 1983-1995 OBD1 Decoder
I am not surprised that they are wrong.
Click to expand...

That's OK. Google is a hit for somethings and a miss for others.

The good thing about StangNet is that is a learning place. I have learned more in the last 9 years about 5.0 Mustangs than it the prior 9 years that I had my first 5.0 Mustang.
 

ThePumpkin

New Member
Jan 26, 2009
55
0
0
Missouri
Mar 3, 2009
#12
  • Mar 3, 2009
  • #12
jrichker said:
That's OK. Google is a hit for somethings and a miss for others.

The good thing about StangNet is that is a learning place. I have learned more in the last 9 years about 5.0 Mustangs than it the prior 9 years that I had my first 5.0 Mustang.
Click to expand...

I bought the Mustang in the beginning of November.
That's why I'm here

:SNSign:
 
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