Help with my 5.0 combo !!

[57fairlane]

I hope I didn't come across bashing you or Mr. Grubs (don't know him).
There isn't a whole lot, but just a few:

The reason being is that the Motorsport cams are a dual patern roller cam.

None of the ford motorsport hydraulic roller cams are dual-pattern. D.Hearne had it, but they are all single pattern. All of the letter cams are based off old technology. Just as the fastest guy on the street 10 years ago was running mid 13's, cam technology has come a long way. The B-cam (one of the oldest) is only .480 lift because E7TE heads stock don't flow much past that. The F-cam is the lesser of all evils because of the valve events pertaining to the intake. They work on basically ported stock heads because it lets in enough intake charge to actually make some power.

What he told me is that the AFR heads flow exhaust so well that a dual patern came doesn't work as well with those heads as a single patern cam.

That would theortically make the letter cams exceptional for the AFR heads. And that is simply not the case as stated above. For a given combination, 99% of the time there is a better off the shelf cam. True, a single pattern does better with heads that flow significantly, but the fact is what is good enough?

Newer trends lean towards dual-pattern camshafts because they fill the small block ford head niche. Not everyone can afford AFR/Twisted Wedges that can support a single pattern effectively. Typically a small block ford head exhaust ports flow is disproportionate to its intakes. Cam grinders use more exhaust duration to get all of the exhaust gas out before it closes.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[10secgoal]

You can still make a TON of HP with letters cams. A custom can always do better because it is custom. But there must be value to them since everyone that sells an off the shelf cam compares their grind to a letter cam. Iv'e never been let down by one by any means. Even now.there even people now using that old technology to make 1200 rwhp. Not a bash on you fairlane, or anyone. But I think too many people count them out too quickly.

 

[damannhw]

Guys, thanks for all the input !! There is so much info here it's unreal. Now to decipher it and make a decision !

 

[57fairlane]

You can still make a TON of HP with letters cams. A custom can always do better because it is custom. But there must be value to them since everyone that sells an off the shelf cam compares their grind to a letter cam. Iv'e never been let down by one by any means. Even now.there even people now using that old technology to make 1200 rwhp. Not a bash on you fairlane, or anyone. But I think too many people count them out too quickly.

Thats what I had added in my first post.
I know of two cars:
85 gt gutted, ported GT-40 irons, cobra intake, full exhaust and an e-cam and it ran 7.60s @ 90 on the motor in the 1/8

90 gt full interior, ported GT-40 Y303s, cobra intake, full exhaust and an f-cam and it ran 7.50s @ 92 in the 1/8

So yes, you can make power with the letter cams (the z-cam is by far the worst however). And I did see that thread awhile back with the f-cam making 1200hp but you have to understand that is with a turbo setup. If you have a built enough shortblock it really won't matter what cam you put in it. This got brought up when I was talking with brad brand (street outlaw/10.5 outlaw) and he also shares the same opinion. Cams in turbo motors just dictate how efficient it is and how streetable it is. The power level is usually just dictated by how much boost your block and rotating assembly can go.

So to conclude, if you aren't concerned with going the fastest your setup can go, then go with the letter cam that corresponds to the RPM range the motor will see. I just wanted to point out that usually the letter cams can be beat across the entire RPM range if you spend your time picking a good OTS cam. Which is why I stated the wolverine 1087 cam . . .

 

[10secgoal]

Thats what I had added in my first post.
I know of two cars:
85 gt gutted, ported GT-40 irons, cobra intake, full exhaust and an e-cam and it ran 7.60s @ 90 on the motor in the 1/8

90 gt full interior, ported GT-40 Y303s, cobra intake, full exhaust and an f-cam and it ran 7.50s @ 92 in the 1/8

Can add me to that list with a X-cam.

 

[Rusty67]

I must not remember what Jim said about the cam being a dual or single patern cam, my mistake. But just so you know, Jim Grubs helped AFR design those heads.

 

[D.Hearne]

Thats what I had added in my first post.
I know of two cars:
85 gt gutted, ported GT-40 irons, cobra intake, full exhaust and an e-cam and it ran 7.60s @ 90 on the motor in the 1/8

90 gt full interior, ported GT-40 Y303s, cobra intake, full exhaust and an f-cam and it ran 7.50s @ 92 in the 1/8

So yes, you can make power with the letter cams (the z-cam is by far the worst however). And I did see that thread awhile back with the f-cam making 1200hp but you have to understand that is with a turbo setup. If you have a built enough shortblock it really won't matter what cam you put in it. This got brought up when I was talking with brad brand (street outlaw/10.5 outlaw) and he also shares the same opinion. Cams in turbo motors just dictate how efficient it is and how streetable it is. The power level is usually just dictated by how much boost your block and rotating assembly can go.

So to conclude, if you aren't concerned with going the fastest your setup can go, then go with the letter cam that corresponds to the RPM range the motor will see. I just wanted to point out that usually the letter cams can be beat across the entire RPM range if you spend your time picking a good OTS cam. Which is why I stated the wolverine 1087 cam . . .

Z cam is the worst? Come down here and drive my V8 Ranger Roller 331, Canfield heads, 3x2 intake w/3 Holley 250's, tri-y's, 1.7 roller rockers actuated by a Z cam. Idles at 600-700 rpms, tame enough for everyday driving, does mid 13's in the 1/4 in the 3800 lb, aerodynamics of a brick Ranger. Comes on at 1500 and pulls to around 6500 rpms.Top speed is somewhere north of 135 mph with a Toploader 4 speed, 3.73's and 28" tires. Best cam choice I could have made. Oh, and the B cam was an attempt to cam up a speed density 5.0 back in 86.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

What about Crane? It seems like no one ever mentions "good" cams from them. Mine isnt the best for my combination because it was originally a smog engine.

Hey Rusty, do you know if Grubbs is still crammed in those little industrial units in Valencia? Years ago my old man had a business about 1/8 mile further down(north) Crocker and I'd ride my bike over if they were running the dyno .

EDIT: Did a Google search and yup, he is .

 

[Rusty67]

Looks like you answered your own question there =-) Ya, I don't know if its exactly the same place you remember but its in a little industrial spot over there. Its a few miles away from Magic Mountain just to give some people a near by reference they might know of.

As far as Crane ? Well, why go with a non-Ford product if there is no need to ? However, I've never heard anything bad about them.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Do you mean "non-Ford" as in something other than alphabet cams? To the best of my knowledge, Crane made them for FRPP and I believe most(or at least alot) of the stock roller cams. Crane also made the '93 Cobra roller rockers which are sold on the aftermarket as the Energizers.

I was just wondering about Cranes because it seems like all anyone uses is Comp. I appear to be the only reasonably active poster with one.

 

[Rusty67]

Do you mean "non-Ford" as in something other than alphabet cams? To the best of my knowledge, Crane made them for FRPP and I believe most(or at least alot) of the stock roller cams. Crane also made the '93 Cobra roller rockers which are sold on the aftermarket as the Energizers.

I was just wondering about Cranes because it seems like all anyone uses is Comp. I appear to be the only reasonably active poster with one.

I had no idea Crane was an OEM producer for Ford. Learn something new every day =)

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Maybe thats why Crane isnt as poplular; Their bread and butter is high-volume OEM . Its funny that my Crane '93 Cobra/Energizer rockers have a Ford oval and part number cast into the tops.

View attachment 495249

 

[damannhw]

I really appreciate all the input !! After stewing it over, I decided on the combo below, and have placed my orders ! I decided on the "E" cam becuase I've used it and liked it very well. There may be some better cams, but I'm comfortable with it. See what you think !
P.S.-I'll be away from the 'puter this weekend and early next week, so I'll check in then ! Have a good weekend everyone !

AFR 165 w/60cc C.C. and pedestal mount.
E303 cam
Crane Cobra 1.7 roller rockers
Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake
Edlebrock 600 manual choke carb
Edelbrock fuel pump ( Do I need a regulator ? I ordered one. just in case.)
Pro Products 50oz balancer with 3 bolt
TCI 50 Flexplate 157 tooth ( TCI P/N 529610)
steel dizzy gear
New early style ('68) timing cover and Ford racing water pump P/N M8501G351
ARP bolts for everything

I thing that covers the big stuff. It's gonna be a Great Christmas

 

[LMan]

I have a Crane cam. Does fine by me

 

[69Rcode_Mach1]

Wow that is a hefty christmas list. Santa is gonna have to empty his bank account.

 

[D.Hearne]

Wow that is a hefty christmas list. Santa is gonna have to empty his bank account.

He's already emptied it some for mine Christmas came early here--- new 06 Vista Blue GT arrived here last week

 

[Rusty67]

I really appreciate all the input !! After stewing it over, I decided on the combo below, and have placed my orders ! I decided on the "E" cam becuase I've used it and liked it very well. There may be some better cams, but I'm comfortable with it. See what you think !
P.S.-I'll be away from the 'puter this weekend and early next week, so I'll check in then ! Have a good weekend everyone !

AFR 165 w/60cc C.C. and pedestal mount.
E303 cam
Crane Cobra 1.7 roller rockers
Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake
Edlebrock 600 manual choke carb
Edelbrock fuel pump ( Do I need a regulator ? I ordered one. just in case.)
Pro Products 50oz balancer with 3 bolt
TCI 50 Flexplate 157 tooth ( TCI P/N 529610)
steel dizzy gear
New early style ('68) timing cover and Ford racing water pump P/N M8501G351
ARP bolts for everything

I thing that covers the big stuff. It's gonna be a Great Christmas

Congrats man, I hope all this stuff goes together easy and you get everything out of it you wanted.

 

[damannhw]

69RCode, you got that right !! This stuff ain't cheap. Luckily I sold my stock 302 for $850, so that helped a little.

DHearne- Congrats, that's an awesome Gift under the tree !! We need pics !

Rusty, Me tooooooooo...

Can anyone verify the steel distributor gear is the one I need for the E303 ?
I'm reusing my original dizzy.

 

[D.Hearne]

69RCode, you got that right !! This stuff ain't cheap. Luckily I sold my stock 302 for $850, so that helped a little.

DHearne- Congrats, that's an awesome Gift under the tree !! We need pics !

Rusty, Me tooooooooo...

Can anyone verify the steel distributor gear is the one I need for the E303 ?
I'm reusing my original dizzy.

Never could upload pics here as for the steel gear, that's required for all roller cams, they're made from steel cores and you need a steel gear to match. Flat tappet cams are iron cores and use iron gears. Bronze gears can be used on either, but wear too quickly for street use.

 

[69Rcode_Mach1]

Heh Heh Heh

He's already emptied it some for mine Christmas came early here--- new 06 Vista Blue GT arrived here last week

Wow you must have been an "extra good boy" this year you didn't just sit on Santa's lap did you?