Honesty, dumb question? RX8 or new Stang?

I think it's a little unfair to assume that the 05 Mustang isn't going to handle well. I'm not expecting it to handle as nicely as, say, the Evo VIII or WRX STi, but I think it's really a whole new ballgame with this Mustang. We haven't had a new platform since the 70's, so while the 03 Cobra can probably outhandle just about any factory car from the 70's, it's not so spectacular by today's standards. On the other hand, the LS-derived platform is one of the nicest to come out of Detroit in some time. I suspect that actual testing will reveal it to be a surprisingly well-rounded sports car.

Watch this on the RX-8:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andy.wray/topgear.wmv

This car is simply fantastic, sounds like Jet Engine is soooo smooth. Also, the power of the car is absolutely great. Other than 6th gear (overdrive) you have torque any time you need it. Granted, its not the type of torque you get with a big V8, but this car will suprise you. When you hit the gas the first thing you notice is that the car wants to go. And the handling is awesome.

awalbert88 said:

I think it's a little unfair to assume that the 05 Mustang isn't going to handle well. On the other hand, the LS-derived platform is one of the nicest to come out of Detroit in some time. I suspect that actual testing will reveal it to be a surprisingly well-rounded sports car.

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I have to agree with most of what you are saying, that the LS platform is a fine base, and that the new mustang is likely going to be head and shoulders above the build quality of the existing car.

However, the Mustang is not, and has not ever been a sports car. Sporty car, entirely likely. Not all Coupes are sports cars. The rx8 mentioned earlier, is a the borderline of not being a sports car, even though it was designed to be, it has four seats, and more importantly four dours. It is almost more of a sport sedan. Purists would discount anything with more than two seats as default non-sportscar; but rather sport coupe. (a less strict definition, encompassing cars of lesser design focus)

There is no longer a true american sportscar. I consider the Corvette and Viper, although they fit the dictionary definition of a sports car, as two seat muscle cars. The new thunderbird is a boulevard cruiser. More power than handling. Maybe the early-mid 50s T-bird and Corvette were sports cars, but that didn't last long. The Mustang is a pony car, which I define as a more versatile and accessible muscle car, and was an ingenious idea, and still is. One doesn't buy a GTO Judge to go to the grocery store. A V6 (or classic I6) mustang will do that quite well, and be very affordable in the mean time. Yet some mustangs came with big-blocks and drag packs. More versatile, and more accessible.

The archetypical sports cars tend to be at a higher level. Ferrari being the top. Porsche taking up a niche near there. Classic Jaguars, Aston Martins, Maseratis, Alfa Romeos, and TVRs filling out the ranks. Some cars try to undercut expensive european sports cars, and are pretty successful. Nissan's new 350Z is a good example, and the 93-95 (up to 02, in Japan) RX7s were an excellent example.
They usually much more handling and grip than power, untill you reach the stratosphere level of Lamborghinis and Ferrari V12s; and the sheer engineering and design committment, with very few compromises are what mark a true sports car. Some older british sports cars, such as MGs and Austin Healeys were exceptions, with small compromises, but retaining their sportscar status, due to their handling and power ratios, despite the compromises.

Let me put it this way, a true sports car would price higher to accomidate a better 6 speed transmission, and four wheel double wishbone suspension (not just independent, but excellent independent wheel control) rather than marketing to a price point with a less expensive 5 speed and live axle, as the Mustang seems to. No self respecting sports car short of the ultra luxury class would weigh in at more than 3300lbs, if it could help it. Some of the greats even weigh less than 2800lbs That is what puts even world class cars like the Nissan Skyline, BMW M3, and even our own beloved SVT Cobra out of the sports car running, even though they are still fine cars. Too much weight, and too many seats.

Go to England, and drive a Lotus Elise, or any TVR, or Germany and strap into a 911 GT3, or even look at any given 2 seat Ferrari, and you will immediately see the difference between a Sports Car and a sport coupe. A whole different world. Luckily, that world hands down it's hard won technology to the rest of us pretty willingly.

Mr_Q said:

RX8 with it's "can flood" engine or the new Stang?

One is a road course car, the other a 1/4 mile eater. Although the Stang can be made to run with the best of them on a track. The new one most likely even more so. Still the RX8 handles like it's on rails...bigtime.

Whatcha think?

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Well at least it's RWD but I think it's ugly (and I've seen 'em up close). If you want to get a Japanese car and can spend a tad more maybe consider a Infiniti G35 coupe. But I'd still pick the Mustang.

I think you should do a list and test drive the car one by one. Then, you can let us know about your impressions here .
I tested drive a lot of cars before I decided to buy the Evo. My list include (but not all):
1) Subaru WRX STi
2) Mazda RX8
3) Mazdaspeed Protege
4) Volvo S60R
5) Ford Mustang Mach 1

Don't let others talk to you about buying any particular car. Drive the cars and find what's the best for you (including the financial matter).

BTW, I didn't get a chance to drive the blown Cobra. If anyone with a 03-04 Cobra lives near enough with me and want to have a feeling about the Evo, PM me. I want to check out your ride, too .

Well put - and I'll add something to your definition of a sport car...

I'll say the RX8 is a true sports car because of one more important delineator - it's built low to the ground. The handling feel and ride motions are going to feel way different than the Mustang, which, as you point out, is a musclecar, not a sports car. And as you also stated, that's a benefit to a musclecar like the Mustang, or a sports sedan like a BMW 3 series. You can get in and out of them relatively easily, there's a back seat for occasionally passengers, and some kind of trunk to put stuff in. That actually means a lot to me and I'm single and rarely carry more than one passenger.

There is a much more pronounced lateral movement in a car like the RX8 or Vette when it corners or a bump is encountered. A car like my BMW 3 series or a Mustang will have a greater vertical component of movement in these maneuvers. It's even more pronounced in SUV's, where suspension engineers tune the suspensions to reduce what they call "head toss", encountered when the vehicle hits a bump or pothole.

Another great example of this difference in feel is the Miata. That car feels like a go kart because it's built low to the ground and is relatively light. It changes directions so fast it's almost unnerving the first time you drive it.

Again, I've made some criticisms of the '05's cuz they won't have IRS til the Cobra and like models come out, but I don't mean to say that the car won't handle well. It will handle way better than any previous Mustang because it'll have the best weight distribution of any Mustang and the best engineered live axle yet.

i just wanna try a turbo rx8

Basenji guy said:

I've been hanging out at RX8Club for awhile and while yes, some people are reporting flooding, it doesn't seem to be a deal killer for the car, and though I don't know about the numbers on your poll, the consensus at the site seems to be that the flooding issue is over reported.

BTW, I had an 13B RX7 for three years/50k miles and it never flooded. Not once. The new car's engine isn't fundamentally different except for its side exhaust ports. Some people even flood their modern piston powered cars. I don't know how, but they do it.

I'm actually more concerned about gas mileage with the the RX8. Some people are experiencing city mileage in the low teens and highway in the high teens. This seems to be somewhat isolated and there's talk that the ECU runs rich thru the first few thousand miles and then leans out a bit, improving mileage. Funny, but the Mustang might actually get better mileage than the RX...

The last consideration,and I didn't mention it in my post, is depreciation values. I would anticipate the Mustang losing its value faster than the RX. That's due to nothing other than the perception of American cars not being as durable as Japanese - i.e., not necessarily true, but potentially an economic issue.

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lol I can't believe mazda is having flooding issues again


the FC rx7 specificlyu the 86-88 had the worst problem while the 89-91 FC's (second gens) did ok

but if the temps where cold outside and you turned the car on and started it up let it run for a second or two then shut if off BEFORE it gets fully wamred up half the time they can flood


think they can also have problems with flooding due to injectors being worn
and I swear on mine I can every now and then hear the injectors going if the car is in the on possition but yet not running



but it was a simple fix to cure most the flooding issues
fuel cutoff switch or a bypass valve for when the car wasn't running

Without a doubt I would choose the Mustang. I do not view these cars as just cars. The Mustang carries a long line of history and it proves itself time and time again why it has been around for 40 years. My father owned on, my father's father owned one and I now own a Mustang. The Mustang is, because of its history, able to bond generations together. If you are looking to own a car that is going to carve turns, go for something else (not to downplay the Stang). But if you are looking for a raw horsepower, furiously fast and powerful car with a long history and gets looks from not only the young generation but older folks as well, then go with a Mustang.

The "RX" series has just as much of a history. Mazda started with the rotary in the 60's, there have been many Rx's from Rx2, 3, 4, 7 and 8. Rotaries have a great racing heritage making mazda the only japanese car to ever win lemans.

The 05 mustang is going to clearly have more power than the Rx-8. From the pics it doesnt look bad. I cant begin to tell you the attention the Rx-8 gets. Its truely a unique car and the quality is top notch.

oh yea...and in the high RPMs its freakin' crazy.

My best friend is enamored with Mazdas. He had a 1993 RX-7 GTU that he absolutely loved. Now he's seriously looking at buying an RX-8. He always said if he were to buy a performance or sporty car, it would be a Mazda with a rotary. That is until he saw the 05 Mustang. He alwasy made fun of me for being such a die hard Ford fan, but even he was thinking of converting to the "dark side". That is until he found out the car had a live rear axle.

Now I've owned a 1996 Cobra, a 1986 5.0 GT, and currently own a 2000 GT and 66 Fastback, and he's driven them all. He loves the power, but hated the ride and handling. The live axle has left a bad taste in his mouth, and he's reconsidering buying an 05. He's keeping an open mind until the car comes out, but he's leaning very heavily towards the RX-8.

The thing that people have to realize is that despite what some of you may think...cars like the RX-8, the 350Z, and the rally racers from Subaru and Mitsu are the Mustangs competition right now.

But like it's been sai Q...test them, take all things into consderation, and buy the car that will insure your long term happiness.

btw, GTU's were 2nd gen rx-7's (86-91) not 3rd gen (93-95)

94T-Rex said:

btw, GTU's were 2nd gen rx-7's (86-91) not 3rd gen (93-95)

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Eh...it was 10 years ago and I was my second year in college...one big alcoholic haze.

But you are correct sir...1993 was the year he bought it.

Well, what about a nissan 350? those are fast and look awesome. Unless of course youre looking for 4 seats or a trunk

Go sit in it. I found it's performance completely uninspiring. And the blind spots to be school bus size. And definately too quite. I wasn't sure it was running half the time.

when did a 350z become fast? u mean a stock one?

Z28x said:

Mustang GT has twice the torque of the RX8, I doubt the RX8 can even spin the tires.

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nope i have drivin plently of rx8's trust me they can spin all u want them to

Mr_Q said:

RX8 with it's "can flood" engine or the new Stang?

One is a road course car, the other a 1/4 mile eater. Although the Stang can be made to run with the best of them on a track. The new one most likely even more so. Still the RX8 handles like it's on rails...bigtime.

Whatcha think?

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brother in law just had a rx8. he loved it but in the end, the dealer bought it back from him over a recall issue. I liked the car alot but it was NO mustang. Of course if you are going to do pro road racing then of course you want the 8 but ,for me, while the mustang may never handle the corners as well as the 8 it will more than make up for that weakness in the straighter areas. Having said that let me also say that no one outside of F* has any real idea of how the new stang handles. It may be that with the new weight distribution, suspension and trac control that the new stang holds the ground with the best of them. If you'll watch the trilogy video carefully you'll notice that the car in that video has about zero body roll. The car definitely breaks lose the back end in a couple of turns but its pretty obvious that the driver is doing that intentionally. This car, in this video, is handling like no other production stang I have ever seen. I would also say that the 8 wont ever sound like a stang and that the mustang will get more respect than the 8.
But again, I did like the 8 whenever he let me drive it, its not a bad car at all, just not a stang.

Good posts, I'm looking at December. The new RX8 is fantastic looking to me, especially the interior. Some have said it is classified as a 4 door which helps insurance rates.

Will have to compare the back seat, I'm cheap and like high MPG with some decency in the car thus I'm driving a ZX3 focus and the 2 doors is fine as the back seat holds the occassional extra passengers.

RX8 MPG is disappointing. Looks like the Mustang V6 is an older style engine vs. the V8 and won't offer much MPG improvement. In some ways the V6 version reminds me of the 66 more - maybe its that shade of blue as the family had one like that. My parents then I also had a 73 convertable Mustang for over 15 years (talk about rust problems).

I'm excited at the prospect of comparing both. Always owned American and Ford, but then again my ZX3 was made in Mexico and Mazda is tightly wound up with Ford right now.

Then again I may end up being responsible and just getting a hybrid Escape that will have the new Ford 2.3 PZEV with the electric.

But the Mustang sure looks great in pictures. Looking forward to seeing it in person. Though if it sells to well may not be reasonably priced by December.

Here's what it boils down to. Do you want a slow car that looks fast or a fast car that looks fast ???

kirkyg