How could it even run like this? HELP!

[68GEETEE]

When I used my timing light for the first time this afternoon, I connected it to the #1 plug wire, and it wouldnt work. So I got out my chiltons, and discovered that I was really connected to #5, all the wires to the distributor were on the wrong terminals. How come the engine still ran?

I got the motor to #1 tdc, and pulled off the cap, the rotor was pointing to #8, not #1.

In taking the distributor out for repositioning, I dropped the oil pump shaft all the way inside the engine, suppose it is resting comfortably in my oil pan.

Is it possible that the camshaft (not original-have no idea what it is) has a different firing order than 15426378? Is it possible they didnt degree it correctly when they installed it?

I dont understand how this car ran, it ran hot, and missed out, but it ran.

Can anyone tell me wtf is going on with my engine??

 

[dodgestang]

Never under estimate a Previous Owner.

A couple thing could be going on.
1. You might have a cam with a different firing order which is not all that un common....did you make a notation of the firing order as it was wired?
2. The PO may have lost TDC reference at some point and rather than setting the dizzy right, just rotated the plugs in the cap until he got it till the spot where the car ran and the timing could be set....when you found TDC did you notate where the rotor was pointing before you starting pulling and dropping the dizzy so you could compare it with the wire then?
3. Even with the wrong firing order, if you mess around enough you can sometimes get a car to run, albeit poorly but you would have backfires and/or alot of fuel out the back of the tailpipe.

 

[fastcoupe68]

It sounds like whoever put the dist in the last time they either dropped it in where ever it fell into place and just routed the wires accordingly and it sounds like they were off one tooth on the cam gear. If that was the case your car couldnt have run very well, hence the miss. Get the oil pump rod out of the pan put the retainer on it before you put it back in so this will not happen again. Start from scratch and get everything positioned the correct way.

 

[68GEETEE]

Never under estimate a Previous Owner.

A couple thing could be going on.
1. You might have a cam with a different firing order which is not all that un common....did you make a notation of the firing order as it was wired?
2. The PO may have lost TDC reference at some point and rather than setting the dizzy right, just rotated the plugs in the cap until he got it till the spot where the car ran and the timing could be set....when you found TDC did you notate where the rotor was pointing before you starting pulling and dropping the dizzy so you could compare it with the wire then?
3. Even with the wrong firing order, if you mess around enough you can sometimes get a car to run, albeit poorly but you would have backfires and/or alot of fuel out the back of the tailpipe.

I didnt make a note of the firing order, but I do remember that number 5 plug wire was in the #1 terminal at the dist.

It missed out, and occasionally backfired.

I guess i need to put it back together correctly, and see if she fires up and runs. If not, could I have the wrong cam in the motor? Is that even possible?

 

[68GEETEE]

It sounds like whoever put the dist in the last time they either dropped it in where ever it fell into place and just routed the wires accordingly and it sounds like they were off one tooth on the cam gear. If that was the case your car couldnt have run very well, hence the miss. Get the oil pump rod out of the pan put the retainer on it before you put it back in so this will not happen again. Start from scratch and get everything positioned the correct way.

Thats what I am gonna do next weekend. I am wondering if its the correct cam, or if they didnt degree it correctly on installation, and covered their mistake by bumping the ignition wires to different terminals. Is there a way I can tell if the cam is off a few degrees? I have a hard time understanding how the car could even run if thats the case.

 

[fastcoupe68]

The only other cam that could be in there is a 5.0 or even a 351w cam Unfortunatly you took everything off and did not make note of there positioning. The firing order for these cams is 13726548. I just dont think this is what you have Like I said before I think your best bet is to start from scratch. The only way really to tell if the cam is degreed properly is to pull the timing cover and check the marks on your timing gears and you could go even one step further by getting a degree wheel and degreeing the cam. I just dont beleive you have to go this far unless you feel the need.

 

[68GEETEE]

The only other cam that could be in there is a 5.0 or even a 351w cam Unfortunatly you took everything off and did not make note of there positioning. The firing order for these cams is 13726548. I just dont think this is what you have Like I said before I think your best bet is to start from scratch. The only way really to tell if the cam is degreed properly is to pull the timing cover and check the marks on your timing gears and you could go even one step further by getting a degree wheel and degreeing the cam. I just dont beleive you have to go this far unless you feel the need.

Now that I think about it, even if it was the wrong cam, the plug wire was still on the wrong cylinder and terminal. .Most likely they put the dist in wrong, and corrected it by jumping terminals. I will get her back together and see how she runs, hopefully wont have to go any further, thanks for the help.

 

[splinterddt]

Okay this may sound stupid, but I have to ask. Are you sure that you are on the #1 plug. I've come across alot of people who have gotten the sides mixed up. Expecially if you own other vehicle that the cylinders are numbered different (chevy). It won't matter what wire you check your timing light should work on all plugs, it will just fire at a different position. I have also had a rocker break and cause a car to run like crap. It ran, but was a pain to start.

 

[bnickel]

i beleive splinterddt, hit the nail on the head on this one. the number one cylinder on a small block ford is the front cylinder on the passenger side bank, and they are numbered like this, passenger bank 1-4 and driver bank 5-8 with 5 being the front cylinder on the driver bank. that should fix your dilemna, but it amy not fix your problem as it sounds like they may have been right although i guess someone could have mixed one or two of them up at some point

 

[68GEETEE]

Okay this may sound stupid, but I have to ask. Are you sure that you are on the #1 plug. I've come across alot of people who have gotten the sides mixed up. Expecially if you own other vehicle that the cylinders are numbered different (chevy). It won't matter what wire you check your timing light should work on all plugs, it will just fire at a different position. I have also had a rocker break and cause a car to run like crap. It ran, but was a pain to start.

Thats just it, I was connecting the wire to the #5 cyliner thinking it was the #1 because thats the cylinder the #1 plug wire terminal went to. The light worked, but couldnt read the marks on the balancer, so I switched it to the other side, the correct #!, and was then able to read the marks. . Thats what got me thinking about the wires being wrong, and after checking the Chiltons, realized they all were wrong. Thanks for the help.

 

[splinterddt]

Never believe the mark on the wire or the dist. cap. I am notorious for moving the plug wires aroung on the cap to get the right amount of movement from the dist. Being a mechanic, I see this happen occasionally. Most often the wires are mixed up. I've been burned just enough to not trust other peoples tune-up attempts.

 

[FIRE14142002]

ok i'm sure someone will correct me if this is totally wrong ,but it sould not matter what terminal on the distributor the #1 wire is on just as long as the motor is at tdc and the rotor is pointing to that terminal. then just put all other wires in the correct order from that point on. it doesn't matter if the #1 wire is in the front or the back of the distributor cap just as long as the rotor points to #1 at tdc and all other wires are placed in reference to that #1 wire.

 

[geegee]

How many teeth does the dizzy gear have? Quite a few. The previous owner could've dropped the distributor in at any position. He then rolled the engine over to TDC and looked where the rotor pointed. Thats #1! It doesn't make a hoot of difference in how the engine runs. Timing marks and everything is copesetic. Is this the right way to install the dizzy...no, but it works fine.

What the previous owner should've done is to rotate the engine to TDC of the compression stroke, examined where the rotor should point to match #1 on the cap, then drop the dizzy in with the gear tooth engagement aligned. Since the gears are helical, this means dropping it in about 30 degrees off post alignment then watch it rotate into position. In this situation the timing mark will be at TDC, the rotor will be pointed at #1 cap post and then the firing order should be observed from that point moving CCW.

Like others have said, know your firing order. Different cams provide potentially different firing order from factory stock cams. Even factory cams have two different configurations (289/302 & 351/302 HO). You can always be sure by rotating the engine through two complete revolutions and watching the intake valves operate.

 

[68 & 00 GT]

I rebuilt my entire engine from the ground up, and when d-day came to start it up I could not get my car to run for anything. I was beating my head against the wall so I towed it in only to find out I was sold a 351 cam for my 302. They changed my firing order to 351W order and it started right up.