how do i convert to serpentine???

84convertablegt · Apr 29, 2005

OK, i have a 65 mustang with a 289 and was considering going to a serpentine setup. also, while at it i was gonna buy a late model style alternator with the built in regulator and higher output. im not concerned with the wiring, im concerned with the actual pulley setup? how would i convert to a serpentine setup? i have an electric fan also, not that it matters. 3 bolt dampner, and power steering. i have a feeling that the power steering is gonna be the problem area. anyone done this without spending the trillion dollars on a march setup?

geostang351 · Apr 29, 2005

Well, to start, you need to change your water pump as most serpentine systems require reverse rotation.

I would suggest looking for a 5.0 junker and taking its brackets and pulleys.

Rollinns · Apr 29, 2005

I have a serpentine setup, but only have a 3G alternator and a newer style sanden A/C compressor. No PS or EGR junk.

I believe someone makes an adaptor to allow your 3 bolt dampener to be used with the 4 bolt serp. crank pulley but I think it was pricey. Pick up a 4 bolt crank pulley and have a local machine shop drill it for your 3 bolt dampener.

Get a newer style 5.0L PS pump with the brackets and just have new hoses made to get the new PS pump to work with the older PS stuff. The brackets are usually reasonably priced on ebay, you could study the design and fab something up. Most of the 5.0 brackets on my donor motor were huge, ugly and unnecessary for me, so I chucked nearly all of them and only reused the 289 water pump.

In my case the serp. belt ended up further away from the block than the V-belt so you may need another spacer on your alternator top bolt.

I'm trying to figure out how to use a belt tensioner with my setup, so maybe we can figure this out together. I'd like to avoid the march prices also. I'll probably start changing the compressor mounting this summer, and I'd like to incorporate a tensioner in the new A/C bracket. Has anyone done this already?

Gud T.B. Blown · Apr 29, 2005

march systems makes a kit. a bit pricey.
http://www.marchperf.com/

geostang351 · Apr 29, 2005

Rollins, I changed to serpentine too and used the bracket and spring tensioner from a late 80's mustang for my tensioner. I am running an '87 LTD power steering pump that came with my motor (351W). The alternator is from a 5.0 so there needs to be a spacer at the bracket/head attachment point to match up with my 351 PS pump, and 351 damper.

I wouldn't be considered with belt length as they make sizes that are all about 1" apart. So when you get the setup together, run a string along the path to get a rough estimate and bring it to Autozone or the like and match it up. Try it on the car and if its too big/small, go the next size or two in either direction

Rollinns · Apr 29, 2005

Geostang,

Could you post a pick of your tensioner setup for us?
I would get a pic of mine, but I have my engine torn down to the shortblock and I'm installing a new cam, heads and intake.

I can post when it's done though.

Thanks,

Rollinns

oh yea, I forgot to tell you earlier, nice avatar Geostang.

84convertablegt · Apr 29, 2005

ok, i know the point of a serpentine system is to use a tensioner, but ive seen them without them just using the alternator to shore everything up similar to a v belt setup. so if i use a pulley from a 5.0 water pump, it stick out farther than the late model alternator??? i suppose i could use a late model ps pump, late model alternator and then buy the brackets for a late model 5.0 right. i assume the head bolt holes are identical so they should bolt right up. basically everyone has posted something different here. now im confused. really im looking for the cheapest best looking method. id like to avoid the huge late model brackets!

84convertablegt · Apr 29, 2005

also, the march system is 700 dollars. thats way too much imo. hummm, me thinks i just should forget the whole idea, but i like the realiability of a serpentine setup. also, or by the way, the march system does not use a tensioner!

geostang351 · Apr 29, 2005

Rollins, as you know from my recent posts of the AOD swap, my set up is apart. My engine is in, I'm just in the process of putting the headers back in and I'll put the front dress in next. Should have it done tomorrow morning for some pictures (if you can wait that long)

84 vert - If you use all 5.0 components you'll be fine as far as water pulley and alternator being in line. Let me explain my set up alittle more to clear up: My 351W came from a Crown Vic that had PS, A/C, EGR pump, altenator, water pump and damper. It had two serpentine belts! I took the damper, water pump pulley and PS pump. The alternator was originally hooked up to the EGR and A/C, so they wouldnt line up. So I had to find an altenator and braket and the 5.0 was available, which included the tensionor, BUT to line it up, I needed to shim (make shift set-up) about 3/4" at the alt. bracket for it to work and line up with all others.

Hope its not too muc to confuse you more. I'll post pics. My only problem was the tension gets in the way of the upper rad. hose. The picture will show how a flex hose goes up and over tensioner to work.

Rollinns · Apr 29, 2005

Easiest and probably cheapest -go to a junkyard and pull everything off the front of a 86-93 5.0L mustang. Get it all home and chuck the stuff you wont need, such as the EGR pump and the A/C compressor bracket.

Geostang and I are talking about the very similar things.
1. the 5.0l heads do have the same head bolt pattern on the front of the engine as the 289 so they will bolt right up to your 289.
2. You do not have to run a tensioner. I'm not right now and I'm not using my A/c compressor either. My belt runs around 3 pulleys total. The crank pulley to the standard rotation 289 waterpump (using the 5.0L serp pulley) then to the alternator pulley.

If you use all or most of the 5.0L brackets and the 5.0L steering pump you should not have a problem with belt alignment.

I'm not using the 5.0L alternator bracket that's why I needed the spacer behind the alternator top bolt. I believe the 94-94 mustangs had a differerent water pump so I'd avoid them.

I hope this helps.

Edit: don't use 86-93 mustang, get the parts off a late 80's crown vic instead.

84convertablegt · Apr 29, 2005

so a late 5.0 waterpump will bolt on to a early 65 289? i was unsure because of the whole backplate or no backplate deal. im not actually sure which kind i have. its the cast iron pump if that helps any. im assuming it has something to do with the timing cover. i am less confused now, i think ill take a trip to the junkyard and get some cheapy parts. probably wont find a mustang, but there are plenty of ford 302 late model cars there. i should have just picked up a late model crate motor for the amount i spent on rebuilding mine at KAR.

84convertablegt · Apr 29, 2005

oh yeah, 1 more thing related. i was gonna go with a bigger ford style radiator eventually. are there any issues with buying a later style waterpump that has the outlet on the drivers side for use with the new radiator? it would solve the $$$ problems with a new radiator. clearance with belts, etc.?

stangman67 · Apr 29, 2005

Is there an issue when using only the crank, wp, and alt? Sticking with the standard rotation pump, the grooved side of the belt would be riding on the smooth 5.0L water pump pulley, which may cause slippage?

geostang351 · Apr 29, 2005

Good point. It probably might slip some and the water pump is something you don't want slipping.

My water pump is now reverse, but the pulley was not. i had to grind the grooves off the pulley so it wouldn't rip my smooth side of the belt to shreads. So I guess what I'm saying is they do make this pulley with grooves. Maybe that's what Rollins is using.

redhotcomet · Apr 29, 2005

Depending on what accessories you're running, it may not be as simple as just going and getting a 5.0L mustang set of pulleys and just using the ones you want. This is because you need a proper belt path to ensure you have traction on all your pulleys.

I think geostang is on the right track. I think the late 80's crown vics/grand mercs came with two belts. One belt ran the water pump, alt and PS, and the other was for EGR, AC, and what ever else. However, know that the water pump on these were standard rotation, also the pulley sticks out further from the engine than the 5.0 pump and the pump case is iron.

An easy way to tell what rotation it is: if the pulley is grooved=standard, smooth pulley=reverse.

I *think* the standard rotation and reverse rotation pumps can be interchanged without changing the timing cover. But there are many different water pumps for the 302, so keep that in mind.

Your best bet is to go to the junkyard and look at a variety of setups until you find one that you think will work. Ford made a lot of different brackets based on what accessories the car had.

Rollinns · Apr 29, 2005

Now that you bring up the pulley issue and the driver side Waterpump outlet, I remember going to the parts store and looking through their water pump picture book and looking at several water pumps. I ended up with a late-80's crown vic standard rotation water pump and pulley with the outlet on the drivers side and a custom lower hose I made to route the lower hose underneath the crank pulley and back to the passenger side. I have no clearance problems running a 67 mustang 4-core radiator with electric fan mounted to the back.

My water pump pulley is grooved. No slippage problems.

geostang351 · Apr 29, 2005

What kind of hose did you use to reroute around the crank pulley? Was it prefabbed (already shaped) or was it a flex hose?

Rollinns · Apr 29, 2005

I knew the parts store guy so he let me wander around in the hose section until I found a few I thought would work. One comes off the waterpump on the drivers side, then loops underneath to connect to a short piece of galvanized pipe, then the second hose turns and connects to the lower radiator outlet. It's a lot simpler than it sounds. You can't really see it since the crown vic crank pulley is so big.

geostang351 · Apr 30, 2005

Here are photos of the serpintine set up. The first picture show a 1/2" shim palced behind the alt. bracket

Pic 2 shows a 2nd idler pulley I fab off teh PS to be high enough to clear the water pulley......

geostang351 · Apr 30, 2005

Pic 1 on this post is the front befor ethe serpintine belt is put on,.

Pic 2 show complete serpintine setup installed

how do i convert to serpentine???

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