How do I split 6 ga wire into 3 runs?

lemosley1973 · Oct 24, 2019

I'm running 6 gauge wire from my panel to 4 outlets on each side of the garage for 50amp outlets for a welder (I like to have LOTS of options). The walls are drywalled, so it's going through conduit, all junctions and conduit is on on the surface of the ceiling.

On the middle of the ceiling will be a junction and I want to split 3 runs from that - one to the left and right walls, and one to the front of the garage between doors., so I need to take 1 6ga run and split it into 3 (I'll have another split near the panel for the 50A plug that will be located near that).

I have a normal junction box on the ceiling and have quickly figured out that isn't even going to be close to big enough, so I'll replace it with whatever size is necessary. My conduit is sch-40 and isn't glued together yet because I figured I would have to make changes.

I can't seem to find bus bars (and how would I mount them in a junction box?), and split bolts I've found 'only' split 1 line into 2. I suppose I could use two 3-way split bolts, but dang that's going to make a mess in the junction box when I wrap them.

I also be running some 10 ga with the 6 ga so I can put in a 30 amp outlet on a separate breaker (like I said, I like options). That's only going to the front of the garage, though.

I'm using sch40 conduit and all my wire is THHN stranded (boy is that a lot nicer to work with than the 12ga solid core run throughout the house)

08GT500 · Oct 24, 2019

lemosley1973 said:
I'm running 6 gauge wire from my panel to 4 outlets on each side of the garage for 50amp outlets for a welder (I like to have LOTS of options). The walls are drywalled, so it's going through conduit, all junctions and conduit is on on the surface of the ceiling.

On the middle of the ceiling will be a junction and I want to split 3 runs from that - one to the left and right walls, and one to the front of the garage between doors., so I need to take 1 6ga run and split it into 3 (I'll have another split near the panel for the 50A plug that will be located near that).

I have a normal junction box on the ceiling and have quickly figured out that isn't even going to be close to big enough, so I'll replace it with whatever size is necessary. My conduit is sch-40 and isn't glued together yet because I figured I would have to make changes.

I also be running some 10 ga with the 6 ga so I can put in a 30 amp outlet on a separate breaker (like I said, I like options). That's only going to the front of the garage, though.

I'm using sch40 conduit and all my wire is THHN stranded (boy is that a lot nicer to work with than the 12ga solid core run throughout the house)

Hi,
I can help you here, unusual request on SN, but automotive oriented, it’s fine. I’d held a master license in VT, Mass, N.H., until I burned a building down (Joking, lol).
My career, side Business, school didn’t allow me time for mandatory code classes to stay active.
Have a few questions..little confused, I’m unsure if you are new to this, I don’t mind helping in setting this up correctly/safely. I’m not cutting up what you’re doing, just trying to help you set it up best for your desires, safely-k?. Might be misunderstanding you is all. Text can be difficult..
i’ll respond in a few hours, based on your response..
1) About how far away, what Mfg. is your main 120/240V service entrance panel from the garage?
2) Do you have a sub-panel with an isolated neutral bar in your garage fed by your main panel? Is every branch circuit planned to be protected by an independent breaker?
3) Are you trying to run parallel 120V circuits off one 240V/50A circuit without individual breakers? Confused about what the below means, can you please clarify?
“ I can't seem to find bus bars (and how would I mount them in a junction box?), and split bolts I've found 'only' split 1 line into 2. I suppose I could use two 3-way split bolts, but dang that's going to make a mess in the junction box when I wrap them.”
4) Why all the 50A, 30A circuits? 2-3 120V/20A circuits would give you (16) Receptacles.
Are you expecting high current draw from something? with (1) 240V/50A circuit for your welder would work, just create a longer cord/extension cord by buying some type SO, SOO Cable (6-3 w/Ground, or 6/4).
Cheapest, safe way for wire is to buy 100’ of 12/2 Romex & strip the wires out with a knife or 5$ Cable ripper, vs. buying a roll of stranded THHN. Against code, you can run the NM-B through the Conduit- as is.
Very easy to get through 1/2” PVC, i’d run 3/4”, would’ve suggested EMT, it’s very effective & cheap, along with its fittings.
If you’re having trouble stringing wire through, buy some wire pulling lube (“Toddlerpuke”) and utilize LB’s, LR’s, LL’s for 45/90 degree turns, into boxes, etc., much easier.
-You’ll only want to splice if you’re continuing a feeder Cable’s run. Is your desire tapping 1 leg of 240V with a split bolt & a ground to create independent 120V circuits.? Or only to send to the 50 A receptacles?
A 120V circuit’s wiring starts from load center’s Busbars to breaker through receptacles desired via multi conductor cable (NM-B) or conduit such as EMT/PVC./Armored (MC or BX), etc..
The 120V circuits also need GFCI protection whether by one lead GFI receptacle protecting the downstream receptacle circuit’s, one for each circuit, or using GFI breakers on each branch circuit. GFCI required b/c of the concrete floor.
3) While you’re on the ceiling, you could plant a 4” square tall steel box, bucket strain relief in 3/8-1/2” Cover with type SO, SOO multi conductor cable for drops, could connect to ceiling mount retractable electrical cords, or lighting drops.

- You’d want a multi tap Bag connector for a multi tap splice like you’re seeking, they're AL/CU pictured below, don’t need to tape it like Split bolts, insulated to 600V. Morris makes great ones, 1 pole to 10, set screw clamps conductors together, sized up to 1,500KCmil Wires, to #18’s.(pic.)
-John

Blown88GT · Nov 16, 2019

The Mod (Steve) of the Digital Self-Tuning Forum is a journey electrician & teaches classes at his local union.

lemosley1973 · Nov 17, 2019

Thanks gents on a cruise ship right now
Will respond with more detail to the 08GT500s post when I get back on Sautrday on Sunday.

08GT500 · Dec 9, 2019

lemosley1973 said:
Thanks gents on a cruise ship right now
Will respond with more detail to the 08GT500s post when I get back on Sautrday on Sunday.

Hi, Did you ever get that electrical job completed to your satisfaction?
-John

lemosley1973 · Dec 15, 2019

08GT500 said:
Hi,
I can help you here, unusual request on SN, but automotive oriented, it’s fine. I’d held a master license in VT, Mass, N.H., until I burned a building down (Joking, lol).
My career, side Business, school didn’t allow me time for mandatory code classes to stay active.
Have a few questions..little confused, I’m unsure if you are new to this, I don’t mind helping in setting this up correctly/safely. I’m not cutting up what you’re doing, just trying to help you set it up best for your desires, safely-k?. Might be misunderstanding you is all. Text can be difficult..
i’ll respond in a few hours, based on your response..
1) About how far away, what Mfg. is your main 120/240V service entrance panel from the garage?
2) Do you have a sub-panel with an isolated neutral bar in your garage fed by your main panel? Is every branch circuit planned to be protected by an independent breaker?
3) Are you trying to run parallel 120V circuits off one 240V/50A circuit without individual breakers? Confused about what the below means, can you please clarify?
“ I can't seem to find bus bars (and how would I mount them in a junction box?), and split bolts I've found 'only' split 1 line into 2. I suppose I could use two 3-way split bolts, but dang that's going to make a mess in the junction box when I wrap them.”
4) Why all the 50A, 30A circuits? 2-3 120V/20A circuits would give you (16) Receptacles.
Are you expecting high current draw from something? with (1) 240V/50A circuit for your welder would work, just create a longer cord/extension cord by buying some type SO, SOO Cable (6-3 w/Ground, or 6/4).
Cheapest, safe way for wire is to buy 100’ of 12/2 Romex & strip the wires out with a knife or 5$ Cable ripper, vs. buying a roll of stranded THHN. Against code, you can run the NM-B through the Conduit- as is.
Very easy to get through 1/2” PVC, i’d run 3/4”, would’ve suggested EMT, it’s very effective & cheap, along with its fittings.
If you’re having trouble stringing wire through, buy some wire pulling lube (“Toddlerpuke”) and utilize LB’s, LR’s, LL’s for 45/90 degree turns, into boxes, etc., much easier.
-You’ll only want to splice if you’re continuing a feeder Cable’s run. Is your desire tapping 1 leg of 240V with a split bolt & a ground to create independent 120V circuits.? Or only to send to the 50 A receptacles?
A 120V circuit’s wiring starts from load center’s Busbars to breaker through receptacles desired via multi conductor cable (NM-B) or conduit such as EMT/PVC./Armored (MC or BX), etc..
The 120V circuits also need GFCI protection whether by one lead GFI receptacle protecting the downstream receptacle circuit’s, one for each circuit, or using GFI breakers on each branch circuit. GFCI required b/c of the concrete floor.
3) While you’re on the ceiling, you could plant a 4” square tall steel box, bucket strain relief in 3/8-1/2” Cover with type SO, SOO multi conductor cable for drops, could connect to ceiling mount retractable electrical cords, or lighting drops.

- You’d want a multi tap Bag connector for a multi tap splice like you’re seeking, they're AL/CU pictured below, don’t need to tape it like Split bolts, insulated to 600V. Morris makes great ones, 1 pole to 10, set screw clamps conductors together, sized up to 1,500KCmil Wires, to #18’s.(pic.)
-John

1) The main fuse panel is a 200AMP GE panel. I've got spare slots for breakers, and that is the panel these circuits will come from. It is on the back wall, opposite from the garage doors.
2) The 30A circuit will be on it's own fuse, with the 50A circuit on a separate one. (Maybe I don't understand what you mean)
3) There will be one 50A circuit. I have 6 gauge wiring and want to split it on the junction on the ceiling to run wiring for a 50A receptacle on one wall of the garage (the left wall if you are looking at the doors) and between the garage doors. Possible a 3rd branch to the right wall as well. Near the panel I also wanted to have a 50A receptacle, so I'll have 50A receptacles on each wall. They will all run on the same breaker, and I would never be running two at the same.
The 30A outlets have their own circuit but will be fed off of the same breaker. I'm using 10ga wires for that.

My problem is splitting one 6ga wire to go to the other 3 receptacles on the left right, and far wall between the doors.

4) I want receptacles on all the walls so I can plug the welder in anywhere - it's 240V/50A max draw. We also have an RV we may want to plug in, and my mom does as well, so if they ever visit with it, I want to give them a place to plug in if needed.
The 30a receptacles are for other tools that might need them. I suppose I could just get an adapter and unplug the welder if I needed to .

However, you're the second person to suggest just getting a 50A extension cord and that makes a lot of sense - not sure why I didn't think of it. I would still want a 50A receptacle on the wall between the doors and one near the fuse panel so I have options of where to plug in at. I could build the extension cord out of my 6ga THHN, right?

08GT500 · Dec 16, 2019

lemosley1973 said:
1) The main fuse panel is a 200AMP GE panel. I've got spare slots for breakers, and that is the panel these circuits will come from. It is on the back wall, opposite from the garage doors.
2) The 30A circuit will be on it's own fuse, with the 50A circuit on a separate one. (Maybe I don't understand what you mean)
3) There will be one 50A circuit. I have 6 gauge wiring and want to split it on the junction on the ceiling to run wiring for a 50A receptacle on one wall of the garage (the left wall if you are looking at the doors) and between the garage doors. Possible a 3rd branch to the right wall as well. Near the panel I also wanted to have a 50A receptacle, so I'll have 50A receptacles on each wall. They will all run on the same breaker, and I would never be running two at the same.
The 30A outlets have their own circuit but will be fed off of the same breaker. I'm using 10ga wires for that.

My problem is splitting one 6ga wire to go to the other 3 receptacles on the left right, and far wall between the doors.

4) I want receptacles on all the walls so I can plug the welder in anywhere - it's 240V/50A max draw. We also have an RV we may want to plug in, and my mom does..

Hi,
I understand where you’re going now. If you can answer the below, i’ll lay out the best, most cost effective option..
I’d initially noted the fluorescent lights & no lines on your drawing for 120V Circuits. Are you planning on adding any surface mount (ceiling drops or wall) 120V Circuits?
Additional overhead Lighting?
The 240/30 Circuits are not dedicated-correct? More of just planning ahead?
As for the most logical layout, that depends on Shop dimensions. What’s the length & width?
- As for the 240V/50A extension cord, it’s a handy thing to have. Will a 1”+ diameter cable get in the way running across the shop?
I’d suggest the design from the onset not to REQUIRE ithe extension cable’s use, more i
You can’t drive over these, it’d be a 6-3 Type Soo cable.
As you’re still in pre-construction phase, IMO- setup things as convenient as possible now, you’ll be working in there.Less obstructions..the better..
I’ll lay out the most logical & cost effective setup once you list your preferences, just take a few minutes.
You were planning on using conduit across the ceiling to pull boxes, already- correct?
EMT would cost little, Mount Solid & look good.
The THHN is individual stranded wire, for the wiring within the conduit,
Ok, talk to you soon.
-John

PS: Connecting the #6’s in parallel is much simpler, more effective, space saving using the blocks I’d listed above. Set screw clamps the wires together, cops pop on, insulated to 600V..

General karthief · Dec 16, 2019

That's ELECTRIFY'N ( done in my best 'greaser danny' voice)

08GT500 · Dec 16, 2019

lol! We can throw in some Tesla coils at the entrances/exits for a simple, dutiful security system.::::Thuglight::::

Mustang5L5 · Dec 27, 2019

Having multiple 50A outlets on one circuit may not pass local code. You might want to look into this. It's perfectly safe though as you stated only one would be in use at a time.

Making a 50A extension cord, depending on the length, and the current being drawn could pose an issue with voltage drop over the length of a longer run.

I've used insulated taps such as listed above in a larger junction box to make splices with larger wires. You can also use the copper split bolts, but then you'll want to wrap them in rubber tape, and then black electrical tape to insulate them.

lemosley1973 · Jan 2, 2020

@Mustang5L5 That's what I was thinking, but that's going to require multiple bolts for each line since I can only get 2 lines out for each line in.

I could forego one of the 50A outlets, though.

An extension cord would need to be 30' long max. (that's the width of the garage). I'd probably make it about 35' just to be sure I"m covered. I assume that would be OK WRT to voltage drop.

Mustang5L5 · Jan 2, 2020

lemosley1973 said:
An extension cord would need to be 30' long max. (that's the width of the garage). I'd probably make it about 35' just to be sure I"m covered. I assume that would be OK WRT to voltage drop.

Do you have a photo of the data plate of the equipment you’ll be using?

lemosley1973 · Jan 2, 2020

The welder? It's this one: https://www.harborfreight.com/weldi...cess-welder-with-120240-volt-input-64806.html

I can get a shot of the plate when I get home.

08GT500 · Jan 3, 2020

lemosley1973 said:
The welder? It's this one: https://www.harborfreight.com/weldi...cess-welder-with-120240-volt-input-64806.html

I can get a shot of the plate when I get home.

Hi, Happy new year all!
I’d say you’re OK, but let’s be extra certain.
Your voltage will drop not exceeding 3% over maximum distance of **70’ (longest run) running awg#6’s in combined routes from your 200A SE to your welder’s combined inductive & resistive load(s) of 240V/50A utilizing equally combined alternative routes from source to load.
1)THHN conductors (35’) in (60% conduit fill).
2)(6/3) stranded copper multi conductor of either SO/SOO/SOOW cable type(s) (35’).

**(70”) Assuming the total distance from SE panel to your furthest 240/50A outlet with a 30’ Type SO 6/3 plugged in to your welder @125% (62.5A) load.
Slight IR loss may occur at around 125’.

1) Approximately how far is your building’s service entrance panel from the utility pole’s xmfr/pad mount Xmfr?
2) Is the electrical service a burial or aerial in type to the meter on the building?
3) State?
JOB DESCRIPTION/OVERVIEW/METHODOLOGY.
From SE panel both 30A & 50A wiring runs to a pull box, wall mount. Split your #6’s & run your #1 240V/50A receptacle nearest the source where desired. Your other (1) 50A & (2) 30A conductors also run through this box & via Conduit run up the wall across to building midline ceiling mounted pullbox #2. Your 240V/30A circuits run out to the R&L walls & land where desired. The #2 240V/50A circuit continues to the building’s furthermost end & down the wall where desired.
Would you like to combine PVC/EMT/MC/BX or multi conductor cable for these runs, or stick to PVC?
I’d recommend 12” Square, 6” deep PVC boxes where you can pop holes & box connectors in wherever, plenty of space, and inexpensive.
I’d also suggest running Twistlock receptacles for your 30A circuits. Buy the plug(s) then, so when you need them, you’ll have them. I’d run twistlocks for the 50’s as well, but at the 240V/1Ph/50A receptacles things get pricier, easy way out is just running economical 240/50A Stoveplugs.
I run pin & sleeve for my 240V 50+ Amp app’s & all 480V App’s. Pricey? Yes. Extremely rugged & professional.
Note:
Depending on RV, you may need to run a neutral wire with your 240V/50A circuit if your RV is setup as such, 120v circuits there will need the return. They MFG. good NEMA/IEEE/UL rated RV usage receptacles with proper protection in a small package.

Don’t sell short in regards to accessibility options, you said it- stick to it. It’s good to have branch circuit access when you need it. If you want it, now’s the optimal time. I additionally pulled extra conductors of various size depending on the environment & foreseeable future of expansion & leave them flagged & Capped off-in pull boxes so most of the work is done if another circuit is desired. I cannot overstate the importance of this, seen it 1,000 times. Go with your gut.
Any other questions, happy to help! Just add them to your response if you like.
***Better pic of what an insulated multi tap would yield you in space & aggravation of wrapping split bolts. They’ll sell the sizes you require at most H.Depots, or Granite City (if you have one, locally) your best selection & prices for most supplies.

Best of luck!
John

lemosley1973 · Jan 3, 2020

I'm not sure where the transformer is for our house - we have a box in the back yard that is probably 3x3 so that may be it. If so, it's around 100'. If that isn't it..I have no idea.
I do know it's a buried though.
South Carolina.

I'm using 1" SCH40 so fill factor for 3 6ga and 3 10ga is under the 39% limit (or whatever it is) - I did pay attention to that.

An isolated multi-tap sounds exactly like what I need. My junction box is on the ceiling isn't large enough, so I'll have to get a larger one. Fortunately it isn't glued in.

How do I split 6 ga wire into 3 runs?

lemosley1973

Doing something with a heavy tranny now

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08GT500

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Blown88GT

lemosley1973

Doing something with a heavy tranny now

08GT500

lemosley1973

Doing something with a heavy tranny now

08GT500

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

08GT500

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

lemosley1973

Doing something with a heavy tranny now

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

lemosley1973

Doing something with a heavy tranny now

08GT500

lemosley1973

Doing something with a heavy tranny now

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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