How do you think these heads will do

[MattODoom]

My neighbor has some 351w heads he wants to sell me. I'm only 17, and therefore really cant afford a nice pair of AFR's, so how do you guys think these will do?

The date code on them is D10E or some combo of those. They have full roller rockers, pushrod guide plates and have had a port and polish done to them. Also with them I get a Hyd Roller Cam (he doesnt know the specs anymore but it wasnt really lumpy and his LX ran 13's) and Hyd Roller Lifters with guide plates, a 5.0 HO EFI intake, Edelbrock single plane ( dont remember the model name - brain fart ) and some mustang 4-bolt pattern alum wheels with hoosier cheater slicks. For $300, so pretty good deal hmm. Im planning to sell the edelbrock and try to get rid of the tires to someone who needs some goof around wheels. That should leave me into the heads for about $150 or so.

But should I be able to make around 350hp using this top end, with a mostly stock bottom end (might shell out for a 347 kit, undecided as of yet)?

 

[1320stang]

No, you won't get 350hp with that top end and a stock bottom end. The C9OE and D0OE heads are the more desirable heads. However, the price for all that is pretty good. You could probably sell the EFI intake and wheel/slicks and get $100+ out of all that. The cam... You'll have to get a Hyd Roller Cam Spyder to use that cam in your block as it wasn't designed for it. I'd hang onto the Edelbrock unless you have something better.

Since we have no idea what car, tranny, gears, carb, intake, engine you have, or details on any of it, it's hard to make an assumption on what you'll get, HP wise out of your motor. I'm guessing you'll have about 250HP tops.

 

[MattODoom]

Since we have no idea what car, tranny, gears, carb, intake, engine you have, or details on any of it, it's hard to make an assumption on what you'll get, HP wise out of your motor. I'm guessing you'll have about 250HP tops.

Its a 1970 Mustang Mach1. Originally a 351c car. 9" Nodular 3.50 Trac-loc, engine is not bought yet. Planning to go 347. Wanting to go with EFI ( I hate carbs ). 250 HP? That sounds really disappointing. He has all the top end out of the car (The bottom end went) and it was a 5.0, so all the roller conversion parts are there. I take it the "D1OE" is 1971? Did they reduce the port size coming from 69-70? Or is it some other difference? Valve size?

 

[302 coupe]

351 heads are the same up to 1975 I think. In 1975 Ford started using smog heads on 302's and 351's, with big chambers and small valves. The heads cast from 1969 to early 1970 were cast without the thermactor bumps. From late 70 to 75, they got the thermactor bumps, but were practically unchanged otherwise. If those heads have been ported I'm sure they would have removed the thermactor bumps in the exhaust prts while they were at it. The heads should have 1.84/1.54 valves (stock) unless they've been upgraded, chamber size should be around 60cc. I think the heads will support 350 hp, but that will just about max them out. The heads alone will not give that much power though, you'll need a well matched cam, intake, carb/FI, and exhaust combo to get it to work together. Unless you're building your 347 out of a roller block, you'd be better off selling the roller stuff (if you get it), and going with a regular hyd. flat tappet cam. You can use the roller hardware in the non-roller block, but you'd have to spend about $400 for the weird small base circle cam and whatever else you'd need to get it to work. Money could be better spent elsewhere IMO.

Since you don't have an engine yet, have you considered a 393W. Just get a regular old 351W block, then drop the $400 for the 393 stroker crank. Use the stock 351 rods with 302 pistons. More displacement and cheaper than a 347. Plus, the 351 has a much beefier bottom end, so it will end being just as tough (if not tougher) than a 347 with the hi dollar rods and crank.

 

[MattODoom]

I had not really decided on what to run yet. Originally I was going to use the 351C so I could just use the Shaker hood it came with originally and keep everything like it was. However I dont have a lot of money, and these heads came along. So that's where I was thinking of going 302, to just stay cheap. I really would like the car to be drivable gas mileage wise, and therefore want to stay away from really large displacement and/or carbs.

I plan to do the car up minus the MACh1 trim panels and add the BOSS302 striping, so it would be cool to actually run a 302, though its not necessary. I will run the striping either way.

EDIT: I just want the car to be in the 300-350 HP Range when I get it going, with the ability to swap on AFRs or such later when more money is available. Think maybe I should grab up a 351w and buy a new EFI intake base?

 

[302 coupe]

making a fake boss out of a real mach?

Be realistic man, you could build the 347 and get maybe 15 mpg if you drive it like a grandma, or 12 mpg with the 393 if you drove it like your gandma. Unless your planning on driving it more than 250 miles a week, you'll never notice the difference. But thats not gonna happen with either engine because you're gonna have your foot in it, you won't be able to resist. If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, transmission and gearing have way more impact on mileage with these cars than engine choice. Be kind of conservative on the cam, stick to around 230-ish (or less) duration at .050, gear it/overdrive it so that your cruise rpms will be between 1700-2000 rpm. You'll get respectable mileage, I would say mid to upper teens, depending on which engine you choose.

For a low budget build, go with the 393, build it for torque/mid range hp, keep the stock tranny, and run a 3.00 gear in the back.

BTW, if you can't afford heads, chances are you cant afford a nice EFI setup either. Stock stuff probably, but that stuff isn't really much good on any kind of performace build. So you end up buying a throttle body, MAF, upper intake, lower intake, injectors, computer and harness, maybe a chip or tuner, EFI fuel pump, hi pressure lines, TFI ignition, and probably lot sof other stuff I'm leaving out. Even then, you likely won't get better mileage than a performer rpm intake and a edelbrock carb. Performance would be better with the carb too. Alot of people get so tied up into making the most 'trick' car out there, instead of just building one that works and is within the budget.

 

[MattODoom]

making a fake boss out of a real mach?

Of course. In my opinion the BOSS stripes are far better looking then the large MACh1 panels across the bottom of the car. The car was originally Grabber Orange, so I would be able to keep the stock color as well.

For a low budget build, go with the 393, build it for torque/mid range hp, keep the stock tranny, and run a 3.00 gear in the back.

Originally it was a 4speed. I will be putting a 5 speed in it or an AOD with rev manual valve body (If thats possible) with a ratchet.

Alot of people get so tied up into making the most 'trick' car out there, instead of just building one that works and is within the budget.

Different people have different tastes. I really think a classic car is cool when they pop the hood and there is some modern EFI under there. Im not into 'All show, no go' however I do like my car to be the way I want it. And I like EFI.

 

[1320stang]

I think the heads will support 350 hp, but that will just about max them out.

nope

My mildly ported '69 351W heads on a '65 289 block with the '65 crank, aluminum rods, solid roller cam, tunnel ram with dual 660's, in a 3000# ladder bar car with a Jerico 4-speed, 5.67 gears and 9x30 slickswent 11.08 @ 119.

Extrapolating the numbers with trap speed and time gives around 450 FWHP.

People discount iron heads in general, much less stock iron heads. Ultimately, aluminum heads are better than iron heads, but for over half the people out there running aluminum heads, a ported set of stock heads would have done the same thing.

Those heads will support 350 HP easily, but the bottom end needs to be more up to snuff to do it.

 

[302 coupe]

people discount iron heads in general because most people don't know how to port them. I know that stock castings have the ability to support some good power, your car is evidence of that. His heads might only flow 180-190 cfm, who knows. The most I've seen any factory cast windsor heads flow is just under 230 cfm on the intake, 180-190 on the exhaust. I'm sure there are some guys that are getting more though. But, getting 225 cfm or so out of a ported stock windsor head is very respectable. I don't know what your heads flowed, or what his flow. But I do know that the typical set of ported/polished street windsor heads start to flatten out at about 350 hp.

 

[MattODoom]

I don't know much about the facts and figures, but I talked it over with my dad and he thinks I'll be just fine running these heads for what I want to do. After I sell the other stuff I should be into these heads for less then $100, less if I sell the roller lifters but I think I will keep the roller setup. Definately going to EFI though.

 

[1320stang]

I have no idea what my heads flow, or what actual horsepower the car makes. I can only go by what the Moroso slide rule estimates it for. Incidently, the slicks we ran were 2 year old slicks that had lost some of their stickiness. If we'd have had new slicks, we would have probably gotten a 10 second time slip.

 

[65fastback2+2]

im thinking stick with the 351C....did mach's in 70 come with a 351C??? guess you could get any motor in a mach you wanted

 

[MattODoom]

Do you think a 396 would be able to breathe properly through these heads? The 347 is still below what they came on stock cubic inch wise so I figured it would be able to breathe just fine on there.

 

[70XR7ConvertCat]

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Different people have different tastes. I really think a classic car is cool when they pop the hood and there is some modern EFI under there. Im not into 'All show, no go' however I do like my car to be the way I want it. And I like EFI.

I agree. 1967 Mercury Cougar XR-7, 1993 5.0L/AOD, Comp Cams Xtreme Energy, AFR 165 heads, Accufab Throttle body, Pro-M Mass Air (what happened to these guys?), etc..

 

[MattODoom]

Very nice looking! Im going to run the "5.0 HO" plate on mine, because, im a 5.0 ho. Just bought the stuff from the guy, very excited about it. The whole valvetrain is there, even a dual sprocket timing chain. Im not sure what the cam specs are... I think Ill snap some pics of the end stampings and see if anyone recognizes the brand.

 

[D.Hearne]

If the cam is one of Ford's "alphabet" 303 cams, it will be stamped in the rear end. If it's a stock roller, it won't be, the only way to ID it then is to mic the lobes and figure the lift specs, if you know that, I can tell you what cam it is. I have a book that lists the stock cam specs for all 8 of the OE rollers Ford produced.

 

[MattODoom]

Its an aftermarket cam. I think Ill bring it with me when I go over to my friends machine shop and take some measurements.

 

[YellowMach69]

I like the resto mod stuff also, I hate carbs too,,,

 

[Max Power]

Do you think a 396 would be able to breathe properly through these heads? The 347 is still below what they came on stock cubic inch wise so I figured it would be able to breathe just fine on there.

No.

 

[MattODoom]

Thats what I figured. Thanks for the help everyone Im either going 347, or 351(W or C) Ill have to work out some numbers and sleep on it.