How Good Does A Fox Really Handle?

88LX5.Oh · Aug 9, 2012

I've ridden in 2 completely stock (suspension wise) fox's and one set up for drag racing. So I have absolutely no clue on their handling characteristics. I've been in many SN95's, either stock or with just lowering springs and they didn't do too entirely bad, but still weren't great in my mind.

I bought 10 way adjustable rear shocks, 10 way adjustable struts, coil over conversion kit for the front, caster camber plates, and tubular rear control arms and I wanna know how good it'll handle. I want a lot more out of my car than just straight line performance and I don't want all that money to go to waste lol.

Is this a good set up?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-790000B-W/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STR-S6000EM/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STR-S6005LM/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRN-GMCO7998ST/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SDA-555-8079-2/

Already have the control arms and rear shocks. Struts are on back order til the 18th and I just ordered the coil over conversion kit and caster camber plates today.

91TwighlightGT · Aug 9, 2012

I think to get a truly good handling Fox you need to go with a redesigned suspension from a reputable company. You have to ditch the stock four link (we call it quadraBIND for a reason) and go with a good panhard bar/torque arm combo or perhaps the Steeda 5-link.

Once you've got the rear in order, you will still have an understeering pig of a car, so you need to work on the front. A tubular K-member that relocates the engine back and moves the control arms forward is best for handling, and reduces some of the front weight issues in the Mustang. Coilovers are great as long as they are quality pieces. The cheap stuff will likely disappoint.

Obviously, moving as much weight off the nose as you can will help. You probably won't get a 50/50 split without building a race car, but moving the battery to the rear, aluminum heads, etc. will help the weight distribution. Finally, the Mustang can always use more tire, and a quality tire will be a big increase.

Maximum Motorsports maximum grip box can run upwards of 5K. Suspension modifications can be just as costly as engine ones.

Onefine88 · Aug 10, 2012

Both mine handle pretty darn good! Or better than I am capable of driving them.

Noobz347 · Aug 10, 2012

MFE92

srtthis · Aug 10, 2012

dont forget the short arm set ups for the front....

StreetsideStig · Aug 10, 2012

Sounds like a cool project. Are you going to run autocross?

Don't forget rigidity. A pair of strut tower braces will go a long way.

rd · Aug 10, 2012

Mine handle as well as any car I've had or wanted, less my Bullitt. Note that I have skinnies on front of my Foxes....

That said, I have driven Foxes 200k or more, since the days of TRX wheels and packages, and think they are great. Like anything else, if you want extreme cornering, there are some proven and available upgrades. My roll cage made mine super stiff, compared to what it was with just subframes, torque boxes, etc. Some weight redistribution helps also.

88LX5.Oh · Aug 10, 2012

Oh I just wanted a good handling daily driver. No racing, just wanna be able to have fun on the roads around here lol. Maybe I shoulda said that in the original post

MFE92 · Aug 10, 2012

I wouldn't run Strange struts on a car you want to handle. And you need to know going in that there is hardly a better example on god's green earth of "you get what you pay for" than there is with shocks and struts.

Spend the money on Bilsteins and call that one a day.
Then spend the money on coilover kits that will work with them, and call that a day. Maximum Motorsports makes Bilstein-specific kits whose sleeves are designed to fit the slightly different Bilstein housing. Everybody else makes one-size-fits-all and then people complain "coilovers are noisy".
Spend the money on height-adjustable rear lower control arms and save yourself a huge PITA swapping springs 8 times trying to get your rear ride height the way you want it. They're expensive, but once you get them, you'll kick yourself for not getting them sooner.
I'm not a fan of poly bushings on both ends of the uppers, but whatevs.
Then spend some money on a local autocross school so you can find out what snap oversteer feels like, how to anticipate it, and how to recover from it, in the safety of a 50-mph corner in a parking lot instead of a 70-mph on-ramp.

Mustank · Aug 11, 2012

It really just depends on how much you want to spend.

Chuck Venit · Aug 11, 2012

For a daily driver may I suggest BBK progressive rate springs and Tokkiko shocks add in a urithane bushing package and you get a comfortable ride with improved handling. I had to do this because of all the weight I removed from the front end and the car couldnt be friven over 50mph safely.

88LX5.Oh · Aug 11, 2012

StreetsideStig said:
Sounds like a cool project. Are you going to run autocross?

Don't forget rigidity. A pair of strut tower braces will go a long way.

I can't have a strut tower brace. I have the dumb *** BBK SSI intake that sits up too tall for anything to go there. Already have a brace just sitting off in the corner of my shop collecting dust

hoopty5.0 · Aug 11, 2012

I can't say I've read anything good about those SSI intakes. Do you have problems with oil leaks?

TOOLOW91 · Aug 11, 2012

be careful with those control arms. a friend of mine was doing some light spirited driving. spun the tires in second and lost the weld right on the seem of the upper arm

GroverDill · Aug 11, 2012

Listen to MFE

stang&2Birds · Aug 11, 2012

It really depends exactly what you want the car modified for, and your exact needs/desires.

IMHO, coil-overs are a joke for a *driven* street car.
MY car is my DD during the decent days (no rain) and non snow months. I do NOT want some show queen or some super awesome track car. I live in New England with TONS OF TRAFFIC! Only clueless morons try to go very fast in/around the cities. There is ALWAYS TRAFFIC ON THE HIGHWAYS!

So, I want a car that can handle. My car has plenty of power for driving. But, we have many "typical" New England on/off ramps, and curvy *ss highway sections. So, I need great brakes (M2300K and 97 Cobra ABS unit) and very good handling.

Also, in New England, in real life, we have huge pot-holes with sparse patches of asphalt that we call "roads". Yes, IMHO, lowered cars are a **********ing joke in New England. I should know, my T-bird was lowered with FRPP lowering springs. IMHO, driving a lowered car in the the NE winter is similar to bashing your head with a hammer. Although, IMHO, bashing your head with a hammer is likely a smarter thing to do.

Add in that the Fox/sn96 strut towers were in NO *****ING WAY made for a coil-over setup, and IMHO, you get a screwed up mod just waiting to bite you with coil-overs, and a DD car, and roads with potholes. Note, many people do NOT use their Stang as a DD car, and do NOT have mega pot-holes everywhere.

So, again, as I said, it all depends exactly what you want the car modified for.

If you want a car that handles for Auto-x/etc, then MFE is the guy! He will not BS you or steer you wrong.
If you want a car that is also "comfortable" on the street, then the 700-850lb/in 95 Cobra R springs may be a little rough for you.

IMHO, once again, the Ford Engineers knew what to do with the chassis they designed, have tons of simulation models for, and a ton of track time on, when it comes to a compromise of the suspension setup.

You want comfort? Yup - 4 cyl springs. Mega duh.
You want best "overall performance" - GT springs Super DUH!
You want Very Good "Handling performance" with the stock suspension configuration - Bullitt/Mach1 springs - Duh!
You want Super Good/Best "Handling performance" with the stock suspension configuration - 95 Cobra R springs - SUPER MEGA DUH! The 95 Cobra R was a limited edition sold only to race teams - no AC, no radio, etc.

After the above, it comes down to an individual's needs/desires. Some people want the lowered look. Note, without ~$10K in MM suspension mods, most 1"+ lowered cars are not optimized for handling - they have the lowered look.

It's your car. It's a Fox. That's the super awesome thing about a Fox! As long as you do safe mods, then it's your choice.

I have an '86. And, I do NOT WANT TO MODIFY THE FENDERS/BODY even 0.0001"!!! IS THAT CLEAR! Gezz! I also have a real DD and drive on roads with a lot of pot-holes.
So, that effects what *I* do and have for my car.

The same will be what goes into your decision.

FWIW: In general, buy MM stuff - ONLY! I learned the hard way, so have many others.

As I've posted and said many times before, my Daily Driver car: (there have been more mods since that I did web page - MM rear adj lowers are awesome. )
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/misc/Mustang1986_with_Mach1_springs/

BTW, I get to leave my windows down at work even though I park my car about 1 mile away (well, unless the Govt raises the threat level - ). And, I don't worry about it being stolen, etc. Yup, they have cameras all over the place and at every entry/exit, dudes with mean guns, etc, all just for the protection of my 25+ year old Stang. So, yes, I love driving my Stang to/from work during the good weather.

Good Luck!

MFE92 · Aug 12, 2012

But I'll tell you to get a good set of coilovers on the front.

I just don't understand your constant and passionate disapproval of coilovers. It's not based on fact, or experience. I've been driving mine on the street and bouncing it off rumble strips (see avatar) for thousands of miles now, and I'm no rare case. I'm one of probably tens of thousands. They work, and they last, they're quiet, and they can ride better than stock, especially if you choose your parts wisely. The strut towers can take it...the stock strut mounts can't. That's why you use a good set of c/c plates. See this video for a perfect example of the kind of abuse these strut towers take on a twice-monthly basis several months of the year. And that's with Koni Yellows and 425-lb springs, which are relatively extreme. And to be clear, this is no race car. Sure, it has a 4-point rollbar and 5-point harnesses, but it has a full interior, including carpeting, sound deadener, working A/C, sunroof, and working stereo, and it gets driven on the street several times a week to the tune of thousands of miles a year.

88LX5.Oh · Aug 12, 2012

hoopty5.0 said:
I can't say I've read anything good about those SSI intakes. Do you have problems with oil leaks?

Nope no oil or even fuel leaks, anymore. Had a massive fuel leak at one time because the PO of the intake had the fuel rails loosened. I also double stacked O-rings on the crossover tube because I read somewhere that the tube liked to leak even when properly tightened. I know the intake isn't the best in the world, but I got the intake, throttle body, fuel rails, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and 24 lb injectors for $400. I couldn't pass that up

88LX5.Oh · Aug 12, 2012

toolow91 said:
be careful with those control arms. a friend of mine was doing some light spirited driving. spun the tires in second and lost the weld right on the seem of the upper arm

A buddy of mine has 'em on his '93 notch with a 347 stroker. They're holding up fine lol

Mintsick · Aug 14, 2012

stang&2Birds said:
It really depends exactly what you want the car modified for, and your exact needs/desires.

IMHO, coil-overs are a joke for a *driven* street car.
MY car is my DD during the decent days (no rain) and non snow months. I do NOT want some show queen or some super awesome track car. I live in New England with TONS OF TRAFFIC! Only clueless morons try to go very fast in/around the cities. There is ALWAYS TRAFFIC ON THE HIGHWAYS!

So, I want a car that can handle. My car has plenty of power for driving. But, we have many "typical" New England on/off ramps, and curvy *ss highway sections. So, I need great brakes (M2300K and 97 Cobra ABS unit) and very good handling.

Also, in New England, in real life, we have huge pot-holes with sparse patches of asphalt that we call "roads". Yes, IMHO, lowered cars are a **********ing joke in New England. I should know, my T-bird was lowered with FRPP lowering springs. IMHO, driving a lowered car in the the NE winter is similar to bashing your head with a hammer. Although, IMHO, bashing your head with a hammer is likely a smarter thing to do.

Add in that the Fox/sn96 strut towers were in NO *****ING WAY made for a coil-over setup, and IMHO, you get a screwed up mod just waiting to bite you with coil-overs, and a DD car, and roads with potholes. Note, many people do NOT use their Stang as a DD car, and do NOT have mega pot-holes everywhere.

So, again, as I said, it all depends exactly what you want the car modified for.

If you want a car that handles for Auto-x/etc, then MFE is the guy! He will not BS you or steer you wrong.
If you want a car that is also "comfortable" on the street, then the 700-850lb/in 95 Cobra R springs may be a little rough for you.

IMHO, once again, the Ford Engineers knew what to do with the chassis they designed, have tons of simulation models for, and a ton of track time on, when it comes to a compromise of the suspension setup.

You want comfort? Yup - 4 cyl springs. Mega duh.
You want best "overall performance" - GT springs Super DUH!
You want Very Good "Handling performance" with the stock suspension configuration - Bullitt/Mach1 springs - Duh!
You want Super Good/Best "Handling performance" with the stock suspension configuration - 95 Cobra R springs - SUPER MEGA DUH! The 95 Cobra R was a limited edition sold only to race teams - no AC, no radio, etc.

After the above, it comes down to an individual's needs/desires. Some people want the lowered look. Note, without ~$10K in MM suspension mods, most 1"+ lowered cars are not optimized for handling - they have the lowered look.

It's your car. It's a Fox. That's the super awesome thing about a Fox! As long as you do safe mods, then it's your choice.

I have an '86. And, I do NOT WANT TO MODIFY THE FENDERS/BODY even 0.0001"!!! IS THAT CLEAR! Gezz! I also have a real DD and drive on roads with a lot of pot-holes.
So, that effects what *I* do and have for my car.

The same will be what goes into your decision.

FWIW: In general, buy MM stuff - ONLY! I learned the hard way, so have many others.

As I've posted and said many times before, my Daily Driver car: (there have been more mods since that I did web page - MM rear adj lowers are awesome. )
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/misc/Mustang1986_with_Mach1_springs/

BTW, I get to leave my windows down at work even though I park my car about 1 mile away (well, unless the Govt raises the threat level - ). And, I don't worry about it being stolen, etc. Yup, they have cameras all over the place and at every entry/exit, dudes with mean guns, etc, all just for the protection of my 25+ year old Stang. So, yes, I love driving my Stang to/from work during the good weather.

Good Luck!

While I generally agree that a car that is extremely lowered is stupid/even dumber in the Northeast, I think your advice here is a bit extreme. I've lived in NH/MA my entire life and have had several vehicles that were lowered "more than 1" and never had the "driving through a warzone" experience you describe here. With Ford Racing B springs on my stang I have had no issues driving into the city for work, you just have to be mindful of what is going on with the road ahead of you instead of having your face buried in your smartphone.

I'd also have to disagree with you on the coilover deal, if you buy a quality setup and don't just slam it to a uselessly low ride height you can achieve an excellent ride as well as great handling.

How Good Does A Fox Really Handle?

88LX5.Oh

91TwighlightGT

Onefine88

Previously 89SSC18

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

StreetsideStig

Active Member

rd

88LX5.Oh

MFE92

Mustank

Chuck Venit

Member

88LX5.Oh

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

GroverDill

GoldMember

stang&2Birds

MFE92

88LX5.Oh

88LX5.Oh

Mintsick

Similar threads

How Good Does A Fox Really Handle?

Previously 89SSC18

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

Active Member

Member

mechanicus terribilis

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

GoldMember

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency