how much power can the stock 2v block handle?

[oneball]

on my quest to decide whether to swap the motor out or not, with forged internals, how much power can the stock 2v engine block handle? Ive heard no more than 400 hp, but that seems low to me..

 

[KronicRacer]

ive read as much as 600hp max. the stock tranny thats a different story

 

[mrvax]

400rwhp seems to be about the limit with a safe tune. Then the connecting rods let go.

 

[Mike97gt]

on my quest to decide whether to swap the motor out or not, with forged internals, how much power can the stock 2v engine block handle? Ive heard no more than 400 hp, but that seems low to me..

he means with forged internals. the stock block with the right internals can handle about 1,000 HP

the stock 4.6 block ( i mean just the block no internals) is a hell of a lot stronger than the old 5.0L block stock.

 

[Gunfighter]

good point. the stock block is relatively stount, it's the internals to be concerned about

 

[hognutz]

that 400 number you have heard is in reference to the rods I do belive.

the block itself is strong. Most companies use factory blocks to build thier shortblocks. Even then it is usually still interals that will limit it at 700 or 800hp what ever they recomend.

has anyone litterlay made a block fail?

I have seen a picture of one cracked completly in halve but the guy had welded in the galley, running 20+psi boost on an unbalaced rotating assembly. lots of no, no's in that horror story.

 

[WOT]

Only block I have seen fail was when a rod went through it first. By then it is waaaay to late.

But yes 1000HP is what I have been told and have read many times.

 

[Darkhorse845]

400 rwhp and anything after that your connecting rods are
living on barrowed time.A good tune is very important.

 

[Intalex]

ive read as much as 600hp max. the stock tranny thats a different story

What's a T-45 supposed to be able to handle?

 

[Darkhorse845]

What's a T-45 supposed to be able to handle?

The T-45 is not a good transmission to beat on.350 rwhp is
the max you can put to it and after that say bye bye tranny.

 

[Back2Mustangs]

What about putting new balanced, bullet-proof internals in an original block with 150K miles on it? I've always wondered about oil blow-by and losing compression from the cycl-walls being worn from the mileage... ???

 

[oneball]

wow, 1000 hp? way more than i intend to push, but that piece of information has made me rethink the idea of an engine swap. I want to know i can punish the engine without having to worry about it all the time. instead of a whole new block, since i can afford some down time on my car (pays to have a beater) I guess i will just get the internals and rebuild it. Since I plan on forced induction, would a stroker kit (d.s.s. racing 5.0) be worth looking into? From what i gather it comes with all of the right stuff for a beefed up block...then the kb blower....

 

[oneball]

something else i noticed...differences between the 4.6 rod and piston kit and the 5.0 stroker is the stroker comes with a forged cobra 8 bolt crankshaft...doesnt the 2000 windsor 4.6 come with the same crankshaft (8 bolt...but probably not the same, huh?)

 

[white99gt]

something else i noticed...differences between the 4.6 rod and piston kit and the 5.0 stroker is the stroker comes with a forged cobra 8 bolt crankshaft...doesnt the 2000 windsor 4.6 come with the same crankshaft (8 bolt...but probably not the same, huh?)

Same 8 bolt pattern not the same crank.

Block wise the stock one will do more than 99.0% of the guys out there want to do.
The internals are the weakness of the mod motor.
BTW-strokers are a WASTE of money.


Back2Mustangs- blow wouldnt be a issue because with ANY rebuild the block should be honed and possible bored if it is out of specs.

 

[oneball]

ah, i never thought about needing to have the block honed. how would i know if it needs the work done? I have been hearing that the storker kits are a waste, but what is an easier way to get the forged internal set? piece by piece? any suggestions you guys got let me know...I am all ears and eager to listen (and learn!)

 

[hotmustang331]

CID is a waste of $$$$? LOL. I have heard that the 5.4 Mod motor is basically a stroked 4.6, although it does have a tall deck I belive, but the stroke is long like a stroked 4.6. You cant go wrong with a stroker, 21CID means that you are no moving 21 more cubic feet of air. That = more power, bottom line. Why do you think these guys run 529CID BB ford motors, just for grins? They have a LONG stroke, heck all BBs have a long stroke. People get told something, and through the laws of physics out the window, if your moving more air, you WILL make more power...remember an engine is basically an air pump, the faster/more air you can move through it, the more power you will have. Dont worry about RPM limits going down as we are talking a VERY slight increase in stroke, like less than a 1/4 of an inch from what I have read.JMO

 

[oneball]

from what i understand the big debate is whether or not the 4.6 to 5.0 strokers are worth the money as far as hp increase to $$$ spent ratio...not if stroking in general is a waste...am i right on this?

 

[white99gt]

CID is a waste of $$$$? LOL. I have heard that the 5.4 Mod motor is basically a stroked 4.6, although it does have a tall deck I belive, but the stroke is long like a stroked 4.6. You cant go wrong with a stroker, 21CID means that you are no moving 21 more cubic feet of air. That = more power, bottom line. Why do you think these guys run 529CID BB ford motors, just for grins? They have a LONG stroke, heck all BBs have a long stroke. People get told something, and through the laws of physics out the window, if your moving more air, you WILL make more power...remember an engine is basically an air pump, the faster/more air you can move through it, the more power you will have. Dont worry about RPM limits going down as we are talking a VERY slight increase in stroke, like less than a 1/4 of an inch from what I have read.JMO

Ok belive what you want.Our engines need BORE not stroke to make the best power.

Quotes from some well known tuners and mod motor builders:

I have watched the "stroker" craze happen on these motors, tuned quite a few, and had to explain to customers that more stroke is less power. Some believe me, some don't, I don't care, it's about physics. So many people are sold a bill of goods by stroker kit manufacturers (I'm not taking any cheap shots, just making comment) on how much more power they will make, and the answer is less. Yeah, maybe they put better heads and cams in the motor to make better than stock numbers, but those same parts in a shorter stroke motor would make more power, but less torque.

I'm not saying that stroker kits are bad (although I agree with Mike on the bore needing to be maximized first), they do gain torque, and a street car probably feels better at the traffic light with a longer stroke. But, you will lose power on the top end with a longer stroke. There was a thread a few months back about what it would take take some high RWHP 2V, and everyone said a stroker motor. I almost posted and called them all idiots that just pass on mis-information they hear on the internet

Here's the numbers right out of the 5.0 mag....

Stock 4.6L vs VT Stroker Short Block
------------TQ-STK----HP-STK--TQ-Stroker--HP-Stroker
3,400------274.2-----177.5------341.0------220.8
3,500------282.6-----188.3------340.3------226.8
3,600------284.5-----195.0------339.1------232.4
3,700------290.6-----204.7------343.3------241.8
3,800------296.2-----214.3------326.3------236.1
3,900------303.0-----225.0------320.9------238.3
4,000------298.2-----227.1------303.0------230.7
4,100------293.2-----228.9------301.7------235.5
4,200------306.3-----245.0------296.7------237.3
4,300------306.2-----250.7------286.5------234.6
4,400------301.2-----252.4------285.7------239.4
4,500------301.3-----258.2------273.0------233.9
4,600------299.6-----262.4------268.0------234.7
4,700------300.5-----268.9------263.8------236.1
4,800------296.9-----271.4------256.5------234.4
4,900------292.5-----272.9------253.9------236.9
5,000------289.7-----275.8------251.9------239.8
5,100------282.0-----273.8------245.2------238.1
5,200------276.3-----273.5------245.3------242.8
5,300------272.2-----274.6------241.0------243.2
5,400------261.0-----268.4------241.6------248.4
5,500------250.4-----262.2------235.9------247.1

Apparently I did read it right..it lost HP in the higher rpm range where you're gonna use it on the dragstrip.
Take the gains of the big-bore and those of the storker,and do a hp/$ calculation...
Or even better..do the averge for hp under the curve,and then do the hp/$ calculation..
It's pretty clear what I'd want.(this was oringinally posted by JL ).

By the way .I make my power with OUT a stroker engine or big bore .

 

[hotmustang331]

Hmm, nearly 70FTLBs stronger and 43 HP stronger at 3400RPMs and top end was like 15HP down and 15 FTLBs down at 5500 RPMs. Thats really not a big difference and isnt a big deal on a street driven engine. I personally would rather have all that torque and HP down low where I use it every day. So Im now even more dead set on a stroker. I know a big bore engine is better, but if you want to get into HP VS cost, big bore is insane 5K for a short block? Come on. Stroker engine seems to be VERY drivable. 15HP on my engine thats going to produce OVER 600RWHP, wont make a notacable difference. When you increase CID you also need to increase intake flow....that would take care of the small power loss up top. It is odd though, the stock stroke got killed down low, then kills the stroker through the mid range, but as you approach the upper RPMS the HP/Torque gap narrowed quickly. BUT in a race I think the stocker would win, but really not by a huge amount. Again I would take the drivability. So I guess I stand corrected in a way, the stroker turns out to be a better street engine, and will deliver better milage and stuff due to the added torq and HP down low where you drive in...so more power down low....but the stock stroke turns better mid range-upperend HP. Cool, thanks for the info. BUT I think if some good highflow heads were added to the mix, the stroker would shine, it seems as if the RPMs were to keep climbing the stroker would wind up surpassing the HP and torque of the stocker like near 6K. Darn modulars and their wacky power/toque curvs. BTW You never did post the gains on a Big bore like you implied. You said to take the HP/$ between the BB and the stroker, you gave stock stroker engine VS stroker....or was the above a BB motor (stock stroke) VS a stroker?

 

[white99gt]

Guess you havent seen the tach fall in a race.You will never see 3500 after ou leave the line.SO that 70ftlb advantage at 3500 is pointless.Cruising yea it may be great ,in a race i dont see any advantage in the strokers favor.

A big bore costing 5000..I dont know where you are shopping but they are not that high.

Good luck on making over 600rwhp it isnt cheap to build esp.with all the parts to back it up(fuel,tranny,clutch,rear etc).

The numbers i posted were taken out of a 5.0 mag compairing a STOCK motor to a stroker motor.